Leap Year Framptuary!
My Framptuary calendar has had some Herd and Humble Pie for the days so far - on the 29th it supposedly has the once-every-four-years bonus, the 15 minute live version of "Do You Feel Like We Do".
hey now. irwin, i picked up a new york rock and roll ensemble album at the salvay and was blown away when i heard the original version of 'fields of joy.' i didn't know kravitz didn't write it.
I went in the opposite direction with the Velvets. Always thought they were a brilliant band. Then I began paying attention to some of Lou's lyrics, and ended up thinking that VU were simultaneously the world's most underrated AND overrated band.
Think the VUs like TheBeatles were dedicated to both the twin gawdz of Excellence & Change. So there are entire Bands whose thing is emulating a single Album by them...
...both under & over - which is to say incorrectly (or, imprecisely) rated ...also perhaps like TheBeatles. The top of the pyramid being after all the most obvious target for all. & the Velvets maybe being the mirror apex Underground...
i like early v.u but it's certainly overrated in wfmuland. (but not as overrated as yoko ono, or nico, or georgio moroder. . . . or Peter Frampton, for the moment)
...& of course being emulated by 1,000s & 1,000s - for a good %age of a Century doesn't make assessment any simpler or more objective or clearer ...tho time also *can* give perspective (Irwin's point in the 1st place maybe even) - yer good PostModern collation of material & data for one thing...
- or, I meant to say - it's harder maybe after awhile to appreciate an innovation (or influencer) in the context of when it 1st happened back then. If one even cares to...
VU is like an empty glass that listeners perceive as full, each in his or her own way. Like replicas of Brillo boxes, or silk-screened multiples of electric chairs. Near-emptiness vested with meaning that might or might not be there. Like everyday banality.
i'd star this post if i could
(but i'm glad i can't)
4:26pm
Listener Fred:
Thanks so much for the John Hartford. I probably saw him live 25 times and he was never a disappointment. A true innovator and extremely creative artist.
You can't say the VU's first Album didn't punch a hole it what Rawk could do up to then / could be accepted in it - nor that it isn't diverse, yet balanced - & also written well with sonic fascination & yes innovation (for Rawk). We credit the VUs with positing making Unpopular Pop was - indeed - a Thing. Yet - that's what Garage & Regional Rawks were to an extent - certainly what the Fugs & Monks & Mothers were kind of about...
4:27pm
Ochre Ogre:
↳
Irwin @4:10
I get ya on that.
Not bad for a band whose drummer had maybe one cymbal?
velvet underground might've gotten more immediate recognition for brilliance had they a drummer.
...and i do think they were brilliant, much of the time, over their first few albums.
Yerknow - Greatness doesn't mean Beyond Critique. But also - Flaws are Human - & Art is Humans relating to Humans. Is one going Theory - @ any rate... The Zen people make sure Art has Flaws. & all that...
I disagree about her voice - & with Cale let's call it a collaboration. Cale also Produced the first Stooges, ModernLovers & PattiSmith. & they didn't sound like that...
Also - re MoTucker's Drumming - I think the VUs were Motorik before even Synths. (Granted - so were TheMonks - who were U.S. G.I.s in Germany...) For certain the Kosmiche (Krautrawk) people & Avant Rawkers in Europe were all informed by the Velvets.
Now that you mention it, I think there is actually Drumming in *almost* EVERY track on his show!! Except for (most of) the spoken-word/comedic tracks, there is Drumming! And Drumming of Rhythm, at that!!
mo tucker could barely (often could not) keep a beat. and she played the bass drum with a stick because she couldn't coordinate the pedal. she played the bare minimum -which turned out to be appropriate for a lot of vu's music- but not because of any talent on her part.
and motorik? no. 4/4 time does not = motorik.
and in any case it's not like motorik was some innovation. it's a brisk, steady 4/4 rhythm. common long before krautrock.
i played a brisk, steady 4/4 rhythm for a 20-something minute version of i'm not your stepping stone in 1981. was that motorik?
never crossed my mind!
I would leave the deceased in your contacts list for sentimental reasons, until the list becomes a majority of dead people, then you need to decide which should stay on it. What about the Old Codger? If he has a contacts list, I'm sure most of those people are deceased! (In his little black book particularly, most of those names are Red Hot Mamas who bit the dust...)
" My Address Book is full of dead people ! 'My Generation' ...how did that happen ?! "
- PeteTownshend
...well, wait long enuff - & they all are, we have realized...
& also - every Artist has Limitations. Sometimes large ones. Even important Artists. Which is also one of the relevant things the VUs represent to a lot of others. Exactly. Anyway.
Thanks Handy, Ken & HyperDose for the heads up — and thanks Ken for the link! Got it saved for the next time I'm listening to WFMU and a three-hour show comes on that I'm not a fan of (I am NOT gonna name names).
...except 'making it' was kind of an inverted thing to the Velvets in the first place ...& they dropped Andy by the 2nd Album ...which isn't what you asked...
kewl.I looked to up on old Wiki and see that it makes sound by pushing air through reeds. Very interesting. I will be reading more. I wish there were more harmonium sounds around.
Indeed - the pictures show holding a shamisen against the body, while the koto are larger, tabletop instruments plucked while wearing metal finger-tips.
this will sound strange to some people, and i only just thought of it and may be missing something... but i think if there were no Warhol and no Epstein, the velvet underground stood a better chance of becoming well-known than the beatles.
...because of timing; and because vu probably would've replaced mo with a real drummer and found a place in the garage/psych world.
beatles were just an exceptional bar band. rejected by one label after another.
Ah, in the Tokyo Groove Jyoshi video? That confirms it! We can say "shamisen" with confidence now! 🙂
5:39pm
Marie in Chicago:
I loved the rest stop line
5:40pm
Glistener MW:
I’m quite enjoying this timely update to “You’re the top” now that cellophane is [APPARENTLY] no longer cool or fashionable anymore [or so Gen Z tells me.]
5:40pm
judy from croton:
The best
5:40pm
Brendan:
Thanks Gus. You're the bees knees and a swell guy too.
koto usually played at floor level; but the chinese instrument that is basically a koto, hundreds of years before "koto", (the guszeng -sp??) i think was often played on a table.
5:42pm
LC:
↳
Song:
"Pandas" by "Mike Dillon (ft. Brian Haas & Nikki G...
- this assessment of TheBeatles is of course intended to provoke. It's nonsense. Epstein himself remarked that Lennon would've made a mark in Arts. Let alone Lennon-McCartney. Epstein got them in synch with ShowBiz...
As for the VUs & Warhol tho - was in fact thinking maybe they woulda got traction as just a Good Band more without Andy's circus ! ...but it's all What Ifs. Counterfactuals... What about the piSToLS & 'mismanager' Malcolm ? But they probly wouldn't have existed @ all...
At least from the article, modern photos show performers playing koto on raised platforms, at least at concerts, while the older drawing shows a woman reclining on the floor while playing it, which is probably the more traditional way (Japanese tradition seems to prefer things closer to the ground).
"this assessment of TheBeatles is of course intended to provoke. It's nonsense"
your ASSumption is 100% incorrect.
and yes, Lennon, a visual artist. not the beatles.
TheBeatles were rejected by every Label until George Martin @ Parlophone - know for his work mostly in Comedy - gave them a go. As he was looking for a Pop act to change his fortunes...
yes, but they were a bar band. the majority of great bar bands never get signed, you know that. every member was on the verge of quitting time & time again until Brian came along.
and they apparently were rejected over and over. emi was one of Epstein's last hopes, at least in the big league.
(at least, according to the beatles themselves, in "anthology")
5:51pm
Laura L:
10 to 6 already! Thanks for a very fine show, Irwin & Gus.
...Decca gave them an Audition (1/1/62) - which was Taped - & rejected them in favor of the Tremoloes. Cause the Tremeloes were Local Londoners... Harrison later recommended the Stones to the same guy. Which isn't too bad...
For one thing - Ringo took over from PeteBest almost exactly when they started Recording with Martin. Which made a large difference...
<-- Previous playlist | Back to Irwin Chusid playlists | Next playlist -->
RSS feeds for Irwin Chusid: Playlists feed | MP3 archives feed
| E-mail Irwin | Other WFMU Playlists | All artists played by Irwin Chusid |Listen on the Internet | Contact Us | Music & Programs | WFMU Home Page | Support Us | FAQ
Live Audio Streams for WFMU: Pop-up | 128k AAC | 128k MP3 | 32k MP3 (More streams: [+])
Listener comments!
Irwin:
Peter Frampton:
Listener Robert:
Listener Robert:
neveract:
Steve Mussolini:
Jim the Poet:
B R M:
Handy Haversack:
Brendan:
Triple G:
Hi Irwin and all
The Oscar:
common:
Crownless Gander:
Beetlemuse:
Malcontent:
Triple G:
B R M:
B R M:
StringOFperils:
spodiodi:
Carmichael:
Marie in Chicago:
pmcWhenever:
Erica from Cranford:
Jim the Poet:
listener 126464:
Andrea C from the app:
Irwin:
scott:
Handy Haversack:
Ochre Ogre:
Various Julius:
Ryan Sterlingvirtue:
scott:
mt hairy:
rf:
Handy Haversack:
bixa:
Ochre Ogre:
Brendan:
Ochre Ogre:
scott:
Jim the Poet:
coelacanth∅:
Borg9:
Jim the Poet:
Laura L:
Jim the Poet:
Matt from Springfield:
HI Irwin and Irwinians!
scott:
Jimmy Page move over.
Dan S:
Gregosaurus:
Matt from Springfield:
Artie17:
Brendan:
coelacanth∅:
Ochre Ogre:
Various Julius:
coelacanth∅:
scott:
Matt from Springfield:
Greets, coela!
brycepunk1:
Dan S:
HyperDose:
maurer:
Mister Dobalina:
scott:
Irwin:
Matt from Springfield:
Dan S:
scott:
No Music for Me on WFMU:
Matt from Springfield:
Steve Mussolini:
G:
Jim the Poet:
Handy Haversack:
Dan S:
G:
scott:
Andrea C from the app:
Laura L:
Brendan:
Andrea C from the app:
Ochre Ogre:
Handy Haversack:
And with that, I'll take my leave for a bit. Will see you all for the third third and a happier hour from the home shores.
Dan S:
Matt from Springfield:
My Framptuary calendar has had some Herd and Humble Pie for the days so far - on the 29th it supposedly has the once-every-four-years bonus, the 15 minute live version of "Do You Feel Like We Do".
G:
Matt from Springfield:
Ochre Ogre:
Safe home
scott:
Ike:
Matt from Springfield:
scott:
Jim the Poet:
HyperDose:
Ochre Ogre:
Jim the Poet:
Irwin:
G:
scott:
Ochre Ogre:
PaulRobeson1924:
G:
Means
Frampton
Unleashed
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
G:
Matt from Springfield:
Switchblade Batman:
Marie in Chicago:
Marie in Chicago:
Ken From Hyde Park:
Jim the Poet:
scott:
dale:
Ken From Hyde Park:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Ochre Ogre:
Irwin:
PaulRobeson1924:
Jim the Poet:
Irwin:
StringOFperils:
scott:
Philip:
Jim the Poet:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
coelacanth∅:
RevWaldo:
Jim the Poet:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Matt from Springfield:
There's drumming on this!
Philip:
coelacanth∅:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Matt from Springfield:
Gregosaurus:
PaulRobeson1924:
…sing us a Romantic Song
coelacanth∅:
Matt from Springfield:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
coelacanth∅:
Gregosaurus:
StringOFperils:
Ken From Hyde Park:
Matt from Springfield:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Jennica:
Matt from Springfield:
scott:
PaulRobeson1924:
Kotzwinkled:
Irwin:
StringOFperils:
coelacanth∅:
(but i'm glad i can't)
Listener Fred:
Kotzwinkled:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Ochre Ogre:
Not bad for a band whose drummer had maybe one cymbal?
scott:
Matt from Springfield:
I have heard The Hold Steady before - like 'em!
Matt from Springfield:
Gregosaurus:
coelacanth∅:
...and i do think they were brilliant, much of the time, over their first few albums.
still overrated in wfmuland!
McGroovey:
Maybe their next one will please me more.
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
StringOFperils:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Matt from Springfield:
Ochre Ogre:
-жеи:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
coelacanth∅:
...and nico was a conversation piece, if not an endless source of amusing references ("wot a clon")
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Matt from Springfield:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Irwin:
Matt from Springfield:
Mister Dobalina:
coelacanth∅:
and it's Thanks to Cale and others that her solo records were good.
scott:
coelacanth∅:
Roberto:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Matt from Springfield:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Gregosaurus:
Irwin:
Matt from Springfield:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
scott:
Gregosaurus:
rf:
StringOFperils:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Matt from Springfield:
@StringOFperils: Another good recipe.
Roberto:
scott:
Acid Cazh:
common:
StringOFperils:
coelacanth∅:
his production wasn't/isn't always so great.
Jim the Poet:
coelacanth∅:
Handy Haversack:
Ochre Ogre:
PaulRobeson1924:
coelacanth∅:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Gregosaurus:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Handy Haversack:
Ochre Ogre:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Acid Cazh:
I'll have to check it out on the archives!
Philip:
PaulRobeson1924:
Ken From Hyde Park:
spacecadet:
HyperDose:
Irwin:
Matt from Springfield:
And, this jazz-of-a-smooth-variety is good!
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Matt from Springfield:
Ochre Ogre:
Way better better than the comment I was conjuring.
doctorjazz:
Matt from Springfield:
Matt from Springfield:
Seems I should add that imagery to my Greatest Hits comp 😉
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Matt from Springfield:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Feldy:
doctorjazz:
rf:
StringOFperils:
Matt in Queens:
northguineahills:
coelacanth∅:
and motorik? no. 4/4 time does not = motorik.
and in any case it's not like motorik was some innovation. it's a brisk, steady 4/4 rhythm. common long before krautrock.
i played a brisk, steady 4/4 rhythm for a 20-something minute version of i'm not your stepping stone in 1981. was that motorik?
never crossed my mind!
northguineahills:
Beetlemuse:
Johnny Shanks:
jeanli:
Ochre Ogre:
szzn:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
& you also say literally both Motorik is 4/4 & is not 4/4.
Feldy:
Irwin:
Matt in Queens:
LC:
rf:
coelacanth∅:
Matt from Springfield:
I would leave the deceased in your contacts list for sentimental reasons, until the list becomes a majority of dead people, then you need to decide which should stay on it. What about the Old Codger? If he has a contacts list, I'm sure most of those people are deceased! (In his little black book particularly, most of those names are Red Hot Mamas who bit the dust...)
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Amygdala:
Matt from Springfield:
Irwin:
northguineahills:
Ochre Ogre:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
- PeteTownshend
...well, wait long enuff - & they all are, we have realized...
northguineahills:
HyperDose:
szzn:
coelacanth∅:
Irwin:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
StringOFperils:
coelacanth∅:
coelacanth∅:
northguineahills:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Marie in Chicago:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Acid Cazh:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Ochre Ogre:
Marie in Chicago:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Ochre Ogre:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
PaulRobeson1924:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
PaulRobeson1924:
PaulRobeson1924:
Marie in Chicago:
paddy in matawan:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Matt from Springfield:
en.wikipedia.org...
So, we've lost John Barry, and now Barry John.
(But, I'll leave both of them in my Contacts.)
Ochre Ogre:
PaulRobeson1924:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Matt from Springfield:
en.wikipedia.org...
The koto has many more strings and is shaped like a wide harp, like a "zither":
en.wikipedia.org...
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Spikey BXL:
StringOFperils:
Monica:
Matt from Springfield:
coelacanth∅:
...because of timing; and because vu probably would've replaced mo with a real drummer and found a place in the garage/psych world.
beatles were just an exceptional bar band. rejected by one label after another.
we'll never know.
Beetlemuse:
Ochre Ogre:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcqO0zkyQRo
Mxter Baba:
Irwin:
Matt from Springfield:
Laura L:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
www.proverbs2525.org...
Koto :
sonica.jp...
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Matt from Springfield:
Marie in Chicago:
Glistener MW:
judy from croton:
Brendan:
StringOFperils:
LC:
Matt from Springfield:
Tom in St. Paul:
Mxter Baba:
Ochre Ogre:
wenzo:
coelacanth∅:
LC:
Matt from Springfield:
12539:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
As for the VUs & Warhol tho - was in fact thinking maybe they woulda got traction as just a Good Band more without Andy's circus ! ...but it's all What Ifs. Counterfactuals... What about the piSToLS & 'mismanager' Malcolm ? But they probly wouldn't have existed @ all...
Matt from Springfield:
coelacanth∅:
your ASSumption is 100% incorrect.
and yes, Lennon, a visual artist. not the beatles.
Monica:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Ochre Ogre:
brycepunk1:
StringOFperils:
Matt from Springfield:
coelacanth∅:
and actually i don't know what the traditional way of playinng the gusheng was.
LC:
Tom in St. Paul:
Ochre Ogre:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
coelacanth∅:
and they apparently were rejected over and over. emi was one of Epstein's last hopes, at least in the big league.
(at least, according to the beatles themselves, in "anthology")
Laura L:
Matt from Springfield:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
For one thing - Ringo took over from PeteBest almost exactly when they started Recording with Martin. Which made a large difference...
Handy Haversack:
Ochre Ogre:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Irwin:
PaulRobeson1924:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Ken From Hyde Park:
PaulRobeson1924:
listener 126464:
Matt from Springfield:
THANKS Irwin! Another great listen! Have a good week off and we'll hear you when you get back!
Have a great evening, Chusidians, Bodenheimers, Jazzcats and Frampton-adjacents!!
Ochre Ogre:
Cheers all
Brendan:
Thanks one and all .
LC:
maurer:
Matt from Springfield:
HyperDose:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:
Ken From Hyde Park:
coelacanth∅:
Acid Cazh:
wenzo:
StringOFperils:
Marie in Chicago:
Listener Robert: