Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from October 16, 2023 Favoriting

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Favoriting October 16, 2023: Brian Merchant, author, "Blood in the Machine" – about the Luddites

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Today: Brian Merchant, author, "Blood in the Machine" – about the Luddites

The Luddites were right. Brian Merchant’s new book “Blood in the Machine” tells the story of the Luddites, textile workers in early 19th century England who destroyed factory machines of automation. In our interview, Merchant describes the striking similarities between the Luddites’ time and our current Big Tech-dominated economy.

Blood in the Machine: The Origins of the Rebellion Against Big Tech, by Brian Merchant. Published Sep 26, 2023 by Little Brown and Company.

• Brian Merchant is the technology columnist at the L.A. Times.

I’ve always loved tech. Now, I’m a Luddite. You should be one, too. (by Brian Merchant in the Washington Post, Sep 18, 2023): “The Luddites’ plight is as relevant as ever. The parallels to the modern day are everywhere.” Merchant also writes:

The original Luddites did not hate technology. Most were skilled machine operators. In the early days of the Industrial Revolution, what they objected to were the specific ways that tech was being used to undermine their status, upend their communities and destroy their livelihoods. So they took sledgehammers to the mechanized looms used to exploit them.

It is that spirit that I’ve come to appreciate in the age of tech monopolies and generative artificial intelligence. The kind of visionaries we need now are those who see precisely how certain technologies are causing harm and who resist them when necessary.
I’m a Luddite (and So Can You!) (The Nib, July 17, 2023) – an informative and readable graphic-novel history of the Luddites, and how they’re relevant to today’s AI-driven economy.

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Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  Brian Merchant, author, "Blood in the Machine" – about the Luddites
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Favoriting
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  Mark's intro  
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  Interview with Brian Merchant  
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0:04:36 (MP3 | Pop-up)
  Mark's comments  
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0:47:28 (MP3 | Pop-up)
Si-Mark and Scott-Funkel  The Sounds of Surveillance   Favoriting
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0:54:44 (MP3 | Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
ultradamno:

Mark! Techtonetariat!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
Bas NL:

Hi Mark and all!
  6:02pm
David (in London):

Evening Mark and all Technoids.
Avatar 6:03pm
uuklyph:

↳ Song: "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"
beautiful!
  6:03pm
Triple G:

Hi Mark and all
  6:05pm
chresti:

Hi Mark and techtoniacs!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
Webhamster Henry:

Hi Techton-niks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
ultradamno:

What the Luddites Can Teach Us About Artificial Intelligence time.com...
Avatar 6:07pm
MarciB:

So bummed I was out of town for the Record Fair. But looking forward to this interview!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
tim:

Hey Mark! I’m really interested in this interview. I’m not a Luddite (though I joke that I am) but I’ve never fully embraced late 20th and 21st century digital tech. Some out of my own ineptitude and mostly out of skepticism and lack of interest.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
Ciggy:

Glad to hear you live Mark.
I just escaped from a YouTube rabbit hole.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
Threemoons 🌛🌕🌜:

Heyo, working late but have this on in the background.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
StringOFperils:

the machine looms *that's my double entendre for ya
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
ultradamno:

You don't have to be against technology to be luddite, they weren't, just against management using technology to devalue the workforce.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
StringOFperils:

To replace the workforce. Which would be left to vagrancy and starvation.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
ultradamno:

Not always replace, devaluing is just as bad, to replace with unskilled and child labor.
Avatar 6:11pm
cobradan:

Don't feel as crazy me telling my therapist that AI is the end of me as a photographer.
  6:12pm
Dean:

Kevin Robins & Frank Webster, Times of the Technoculture (Routledge 1999), ch. 2, "Engaging with Luddism," https://t.ly/KpCur

"In this chapter, we want to consider the meaning and significance of Luddism. It is an issue that we took up in the 1980s, when we wrote a book on information technology with the subtitle ‘A Luddite Analysis’. Reacting to the reflex dismissal of the Luddites, we urged that they be approached with more understanding, and that there should be a more historically grounded awareness of the particular circumstances to which they were responding."
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
Threemoons 🌛🌕🌜:

Book ordered.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
Threemoons:

↳ StringOFperils @6:10
Yup, and now AI is coming for creative jobs. I'm wondering when movie actors will simply have their bodies scanned at different stages in life and then just license the simulations out for AI-generated movies.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
StringOFperils:

Good time to ask yourself, "Am I useful?" Plan ahead.
  6:16pm
P-90:

Haven’t ordered it yet, but feeling more each minute like I’m inevitably gonna NEED to read this
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
StringOFperils:

↳ StringOFperils @6:16
**not that THAT is easy to do anymore
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
ultradamno:

↳ Threemoons @6:14
An actual point of contention of the ongoing SAG-AFTRA strike, involving extras at this point.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
Mark Hurst:

Hi @ultra, @Bas, @DiL, @TripleG, @chresti, @Webham, @MarciB, @tim, @Ciggy, @Threemoons, @StringOFperils, @cobradan, @Dean, @P-90! Appreciate you being here for the show.
  6:19pm
P-90:

“drive down wages and grievances”
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
ultradamno:

↳ ultradamno @6:11
And some on the right are working on breaking down child labor laws, by the way www.npr.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:21pm
Ciggy:

Is there any similarities between the Luddites and the Jacobites. I think I'm way off on this.

Off tangent, I just know the song, "God Save Us" by the Jacobites. Constantly heard it on WFDU-fm circa '88. On the Shaoe of Things to Come with Bob Westphal
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
Mike Sin:

It’s such a weird concept — because if you’re driving wages down to nothing, you’re saving on the front end, but these folks are also your customers. If you’re driving up poverty, who is going to buy your products? You’re making cheaper and inferior goods for a smaller and smaller market.
  6:24pm
Dean:

Yep, Eric Hobsbawm, and E.P. Thompson.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Mike Sin @6:23
It's a good point, Mike. I think the rationale - supported by Parliament at the time - was that driving down the price of English goods would open up global markets. So yeah English citizens would be impoverished and exploited, but the owners would sell lots of goods overseas.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
Mike Sin:

Regarding labor — and I know Henry Ford is a hell of a controversial character — but in the early 1900s, wasn’t he paying the highest day wage ($5/day — almost double the going rate) because he wanted to ensure that all working at the factory in Michigan could buy his new products?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
Threemoons 🌛🌕🌜:

↳ P-90 @6:19
Yup, which is what Amazon is doing now....
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
tom tom the pipers son:

also outside of manufacturing the exploitation, severe, of people mining minerals for big tech in places like congo
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
StringOFperils:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:25
It's about taking as much money OUT of a global system TODAY. The crumbling dystopia outside can yet be monetized in new and strange ways. Until it can't. But today is TODAY!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Mike Sin @6:27
Yes indeed. And the company town, and the weekend hours off, and and... he wanted his workers to be able to buy the product they were manufacturing.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
tim:

Does Brian address 21st century ludditism and how to change the minds of contemporaries who embrace AI.

I know someone in the professional capacity whose job (read between the lines here) is to help students and scholars find accurate and verifiable information has enthusiastically embraced AI. When I’ve pointed out how terribly inaccurate AI information can be. Their response was “It’s so fun though”. I was blown away. It seems like this person should know better.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
StringOFperils:

Rational is now Rationale.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ tim @6:30
Later in the book he does cover Luddism today and some actions contemporary Luddites have taken. As to whether that will actually change the minds of contemporaries... not sure.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
tim:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:31
Thanks, Mark. I’m going to put in a purchase request for Brian’s book at my local library if it’s not already on the shelf.
  6:35pm
cbunny:

Emmett Grogan!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ tim @6:33
Nice! You'll like the book.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Ciggy:

Billionaire Charles Feeney gave his $8 Billion fortune away.
www.nytimes.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Ciggy @6:38
Chuck Feeney is one of my heroes.
  6:40pm
cbunny:

The Ned Ludd bit has strong parallels to Emmett Grogan of the late 1960’s group, The Diggers.

Ringolevio: A Life Played For Keeps by EG is a fun read.
  6:40pm
David (in London):

The Brits got quite good at using collective identities to evade authority at that time, Captain Swing, the Rebeccas et al.
  6:41pm
chresti:

Jeez!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
ultradamno:

Ned Ludd i.pinimg.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ ultradamno @6:41
Yep - in the book, Brian explains the cross-dressing Luddite image.
  6:44pm
P-90:

“the default mode of aggressive condescension”
Avatar 6:44pm
MarciB:

Just requested the book from my library - though I'm still reading "Your Face Belongs to Us".
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
Jim the Poet:

I want to be a loser
  6:45pm
P-90:

hey Jim
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
tim:

↳ Jim the Poet @6:45
It’s pretty great, Jim. When I see those who identify as winners, I am more than happy to be on the losers side.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Mike Sin:

As usual, it’s not the tech itself — it’s those controlling the tech.
Avatar 6:49pm
MarciB:

We live in an age of hoarding, basically.
  6:52pm
cbunny:

Diggers:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diggers
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
tim:

WFMU is Luddism! You can take that to bank, Jack!
  6:52pm
David (in London):

Great show today, Mark, thanks.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
StringOFperils:

Thank you, Mark and Brian.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
tim:

Great interview, Mark! I’m looking forward to digging in to the book.
  6:53pm
cbunny:

the San Fransisco Diggers:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diggers_(theater)
  6:54pm
chresti:

Does he play tennis?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Thank you Mark Hurst and Brian Merchant!!!
  6:55pm
chresti:

Thanks Mark!
  6:55pm
chresti:

Thanks cbunny
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
tim:

↳ chresti @6:54
chresti - How do we Luddite some pickle ball platers?!?!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
JReganK:

Thnx, Mark! Informative show as usual
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
tim:

Matt Warwick - The Champ of Gratuitous Apps!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Jim the Poet:

Thanks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
listener 126464:

Thanks, Mark and Brian.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
tim:

Thanks again, Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Mike Sin:

Excellent show — historical angle as well as 21st century similarities
  7:00pm
chresti:

So GOOD
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
Bas NL:

Thanks Mark and Brian!
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