Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from October 9, 2023 Favoriting

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Favoriting October 9, 2023: Antitrust lawsuits against Google and Amazon

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Why we should pay more attention to Google – not just the fraud trial of Sam Bankman-Fried.
Why we should pay more attention to Google – not just the fraud trial of Sam Bankman-Fried.
Favoriting
Why we should pay more attention to Google – not just the fraud trial of Sam Bankman-Fried.

Today: Antitrust lawsuits against Google and Amazon

Two Big Tech monopolies - Google and Amazon - are in a heap of trouble, each facing their own antitrust lawsuit from the U.S. government. Today: a review of what’s going on, and why it’s more important than ever to “abandon Amazon” and “get off Google.”

Get Off Google

• Context. From Insider (Oct 2020) about the DOJ’s antitrust suit against Microsoft: “The court ruled in April 2000 that Microsoft had violated the Sherman Act, and later ordered that Microsoft be broken up into two separate companies.” Microsoft won its appeal in June 2021, but the company allowed the web to thrive...

• From Axios (Sep 1, 2023), a summary of the Dept of Justice's antitrust lawsuit against Google:

At its core, the case now is about two key questions:

  - Whether Google’s exclusive deals with web browsers like Mozilla and its practice of preloading Google on Android as the default search engine are anticompetitive.
  - Whether Google’s Search Ad 360 product discriminates against ad features used by other search engines, like Bing, through slower development of ad tools for non-Google products.
• . . . or as David McCabe and Cecilia Kang put it in the NYT (Sep 6, 2023):
The case centers on whether Google illegally cemented its dominance and squashed competition by paying Apple and other companies to make its internet search engine the default on the iPhone as well as on other devices and platforms.

. . . The Justice Department has accused Google of destroying employees’ instant messages that could have contained relevant information for the case.
Jason Kint (Sep 5, 2023): "Google is attempting to shield public access . . . This includes remarkable sealing of evidence. It’s what you do when you have extraordinary power beyond governments. The public should be outraged."

• Past guest Gabriel Weinberg, CEO of Duck Duck Go, testified:
Weinberg described the difficulty users face in switching their default to DuckDuckGo away from Google, which he said is “way harder than it needs to be.” He added: “If you switch some of these defaults eventually you’re just going to be switched back to Google if you do nothing.”
The Tragedy of Google Search (Charlie Warzel in the Atlantic, Sep 22, 2023):
Unlike its streamlined, efficient former self, Google Search is now bloated and overmonetized. It’s harder now to find answers that feel authoritative or uncompromised; a search for healthy toddler snacks is overloaded with sponsored product placement, prompts to engage with “more questions” . . . and endless, keyword-engorged content. Using Google once felt like magic, and now it’s more like rifling through junk mail, dodging scams and generic mailers.

At the heart of the case against Google is a simple question: Does the company command 90 percent of the U.S. search-engine market because its technology is superior and users genuinely prefer it, or because it paid massive sums to companies like Apple to be used as a default service over competitors such as Bing?
We Finally Have Proof That the Internet Is Worse (Charlie Warzel in the Atlantic, Oct 7, 2023): “Search’s devolution is a familiar story in an economy that demands untenable growth. The trajectory always looks like this: Invent a world-changing technology, scale it up, monetize it, print money, and take it public. . . . with every success, there is more pressure to scale further . . .”

• From Tim Wu in the New York Times (Sep 18, 2023), The Google Trial Is Going to Rewrite Our Future:
Loosening the grip of a controlling monopolist may not always solve the problem at hand (here, an online search monopoly). But it can open up closed markets, shake up the industry and spark innovation in unexpected areas. . . .

Consider the antitrust lawsuit that led to the breakup of AT&T’s telephone monopoly in 1984. At the time, prosecutors were focused on lowering the pricing of long-distance telephone calls and giving consumers greater choice. But more important and less anticipated, the breakup helped to jump-start the internet revolution of the 1990s, in part by making it easier for companies to conduct business over phone lines and for customers to connect modems to them.
• See in the NYT, Google Says Switching Away From Its Search Engine Is Easy. It’s Not. (Sep 20, 2023)

• From “How Google Alters Search Queries to Get at Your Wallet,” a Wired article Oct 2, 2023 that has been removed entirely since publication, says that Google actually changes people’s search queries before handing it over to the results engine:
When you enter a query, you might expect a search engine to incorporate synonyms into the algorithm as well as text phrase pairings in natural language processing. But this overhaul went further, actually altering queries to generate more commercial results.

There have long been suspicions that the search giant manipulates ad prices, and now it’s clear that Google treats consumers with the same disdain. The “10 blue links,” or organic results, which Google has always claimed to be sacrosanct, are just another vector for Google greediness, camouflaged in the company’s kindergarten colors.

. . . Say you search for “children’s clothing.” Google converts it, without your knowledge, to a search for “NIKOLAI-brand kidswear,” making a behind-the-scenes substitution of your actual query with a different query that just happens to generate more money for the company, and will generate results you weren’t searching for at all. It’s not possible for you to opt out of the substitution. If you don’t get the results you want, and you try to refine your query, you are wasting your time. This is a twisted shopping mall you can’t escape.

. . . This system reduces search engine quality for users and drives up advertiser expenses. Google can get away with it because these manipulations are imperceptible to the user and advertiser, and the company has effectively captured more than 90 percent market share.

. . . The next time you Google, remember that you’re getting search results that have been skewed—not to help you find what you’re looking for, but to boost the company’s profits.
Abandon Amazon

The FTC Sues to Break Up Amazon Over an Economy-Wide “Hidden Tax” (BIG by Matt Stoller, Sep 27, 2023): “The Federal Trade Commission and 17 states [have] filed an antitrust suit against Amazon, one of the biggest companies in the world, for monopolization and unfair methods of competition.”

• From past guest Pat Garofalo in Boondoggle (Oct 3, 2023), You Paid to Build Amazon's Monopoly Power:
Last week, the Federal Trade Commission and 17 state attorneys general filed a high-profile and long-promised lawsuit against Amazon, alleging that the corporate giant uses a host of illegal, anti-competitive tactics to maintain its dominance over online retailing.

The whole complaint is worth reading, but at the heart of the case is the allegation that Amazon imposes a “hidden tax” on consumers and sellers that use its platform, raising prices as a way to mask that the “free shipping” promised to Amazon Prime subscribers is not really free at all.

. . . Crucially, sellers are not allowed to sell their wares for lower elsewhere on the web, including on their own websites, lest they get buried in the Amazon listing, essentially disappearing them from the most important retail site on the internet. For instance, see this recent case of an Amazon seller getting dinged for lowering their cost by five cents on a non-Amazon website.

This all leads to Amazon collecting nearly half of what sellers on its platform make from a sale. And since sellers have to hand over all that to Amazon, without lowering prices on other websites, you ultimately pay more than you would otherwise, not just on Amazon, but across the internet.
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Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
ultradamno:

Mark! Techtonooglazons!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
Handy Haversack:

Hello, Mark, Techyons.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
chresti:

Hi Mark and techtonicians!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
DanFA:

Hello Mark. I assume this conversation was recorded on a single.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
ultradamno:

By the way, Frontline is have a special on Elon Musk's Twitter takeover this week...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
DanFA:

↳ ultradamno @6:01
Thanks for the heads-up.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

Hey Mark and techtoniques!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Bas NL:

Hi Mark! Hi Big Tech savvies!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
StringOFperils:

Your trust will be delivered by Wednesday October 11, with Amazon Prime
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
DanFA:

www.pbs.org...
  6:04pm
David (in London):

Evening Mark and all Technoids.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
DjLorraine:

Hello
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
tom tom the pipers son:

@ mark: an essay by a former professor of mine who taught at m.i.t., so you may know about him. thought you might be interested...

www.nadin.ws...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
StringOFperils:

In Canada, it's called Thanksgiving
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

In Vermont the Legislature changed today to "Indigenous People's Day" a buncha years ago. Thank goodness!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
DanFA:

These libs are trying to cancel culture columbus, ohio day!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
listener 126464:

Happy That Day!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Hi Mark Hurst and all!!!
Avatar 6:07pm
Juli:

Nice.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

(Also, because Vermont has a LOT to answer for re our treatment of indigenous people. Cf. eugenics. Feh.)
  6:08pm
Steve Mussolini:

I think we're due for another softball interview with Matt Tahini
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
-жеи:

Hi all!
Avatar 6:08pm
Juli:

I am never buying from Amazon again:::::::{
Maybe a wig for Halloween::::{
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
DanFA:

↳ -жеи @6:08
Hi Ken
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

Hey Ken!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
Webhamster Henry:

Trust the Anti-Trust!
Avatar 6:14pm
Juli:

Who what now?
Avatar 6:14pm
Juli:

I missed the name
  6:14pm
Rolando:

Greetings my fine fearless friends
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
Webhamster Henry:

Case study though: breaking up the Bell system into the Baby Bells... after a few years the kind of re acquired each other.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
chresti:

I noticed Amzon buying out all the stock of a certain brand of xylitol mints a few months ago- they were the ONLY place you could order this product online!
Avatar 6:17pm
Juli:

Think of the best in each other:::::
Unless they are on trial lol
Avatar 6:18pm
Juli:

If they are on trial:::
Stay Neutral::::
Stay Wise

See the full context
& change the world.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
-жеи:

Microsoft, like Nixon, feels much less evil in retrospect
Avatar 6:21pm
Juli:

Can we explain more of what they did?
I am curious::I want to read up on this
Avatar 6:22pm
Juli:

Amazon can break up
Google I must admit is easier to read:::{
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ -жеи @6:20
micro soft, nixon...more mom 'n' pop style evil
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
ultradamno:

Yeah, but they were evil before it was cool....
  6:25pm
chresti:

“Google” will become “Goodgle”
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Mike Sin:

Mark raises some excellent points about the Microsoft trial at that time — a lot of people like myself bought into googles marketing plan and PR at the time. A lot of us were using Yahoo as a search engine, but we switched over to Google because they were coming across so less “corporate” and much more as a “friend to the users.”
  6:27pm
mr 6:

October is pitbull awareness month also domestic violence awareness month and Italian American heritage month. Happy Columbus Day to everyone.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ tom tom the pipers son @6:23
... or microsoft more terminator evil, google more terminator 2, silver robot evil
Avatar 6:28pm
Juli:

The enemy is not each other:::::

It is clear who our enemies are


It is important to build strong within each person.
::::::::
NO fear will cause us to evolve into better beings & societies imho
Avatar 6:31pm
Juli:

↳ mr 6 @6:27
????
Happy Indigenious Ppls Day
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:31pm
Handy Haversack:

Why you shouldn't trust Apple: www.wfmu.org...
  6:32pm
Ochre Ogre:

Follow the Money!
Avatar 6:32pm
Juli:

Understood now:::}
Ty for explaining
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Handy Haversack:

K8 discovered that Google's stranglehold over the NYC Dept. of Ed. is so strong that you can't actually reach DuckDuckGo when on the wifi of an NYC school.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
ultradamno:

Duck Go Go-ooogle It?
  6:33pm
Ochre Ogre:

Safari?
Avatar 6:33pm
Juli:

Hmmmmmmmm.
I believe Mark Hurst ::::}

Um we can easily stop the ppl doing harm.
Not each other
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Webhamster Henry:

You CAN trust WFMU! Pledge to the Hellraiser!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
tom tom the pipers son:

apple distorted the meaning of delta 5's 'mind your own business' from what made fun of bourgeois propriety to something else
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
ultradamno:

I used to like to Altavistaocate It
  6:34pm
Rolando:

Mark you are hurting me with this bad talk about 🍎
Avatar 6:34pm
Juli:

:::::}
So happy I have nothing to do w them
It feels to be good
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ ultradamno @6:33
Or you can use Archie to seach for FTP files...
Avatar 6:35pm
Juli:

Good to be good::::}
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:35pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:34
And Veronica was the Gopher equivalent.
Avatar 6:37pm
Juli:

People are people.
Treat them like people::
Corporations are not people


Think about what you are saying
Avatar 6:37pm
Juli:

To have information to share is important:::}
Share peace
Avatar 6:38pm
Juli:

We belittle each other.
For what?

For what
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:40pm
Deano de los Muertos:

pretty sneaky
Avatar 6:41pm
Juli:

Misogyny is terrifying::::
I must peace

I will read up on this!

Thank you, Everyone:::}
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
ultradamno:

Apparently, with new fall looks www.garanimals.com
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
Deano de los Muertos:

They can’t shut down Mark Hurst
  6:44pm
Ochre Ogre:

Google, the trump of the internet.
Avatar 6:44pm
Fredericks:

Mark is sounding like a Hell Raiser to me.
Avatar 6:45pm
Juli:

I stand for truth & beauty
When others lie to me
Scare me to death it is not okay:::
Not even knowing what is going on is scary
We shouldn't lie each other ever
We shouldn't scare each other
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Handy Haversack:

Robot-Boombox-Pumpkin is a winning combo.
  6:47pm
Steve Mussolini:

Some on-air personalities here are paid. Eg. Clay Pidgeon
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
chris in the redwoods:

i wish i had the time to help the station replace the google site search! there are some nice open source options, but they need programs written to feed the database and the UI for the search form and results...

nice show, Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
Handy Haversack:

Looking forward to the Techtonic Atari Kool-Aid Man Championship.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
Webhamster Henry:

ATRAI theme song for Hoof 'n' Mouth!
Avatar 6:48pm
Juli:

We just need inventions & promotion.
  6:50pm
Ochre Ogre:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:48
HA! And the Tectonic AI knock down.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ chris in the redwoods @6:48
Just ask Duck Duck with the prefix "site:wfmu.org", just like G**gl*!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
chris in the redwoods:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:50
oh, is that so?! well, that seems like a no brainer, then, yeah?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ chris in the redwoods @6:51
Yeah .. the WFMU website could easily change that, but I haven't had WebHamstering access for years!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ chris in the redwoods @6:48
Is the Basic Playlist Search Google-fied? I had thought it was only the advanced search for some reason.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:53
the playlist searches are Kenzo's search of our own playlist database.
Avatar 🤖 6:54pm
herb.nyc:

Hola. Great points, mark. And THEY do be evil! I’ve not scrolled up to read but Douglas rushkoff (past techtonic guest) e-blasts us and latest is relevant to when internet used to be fun.

www.simplelists.com...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:53
That's what I'd thought, yeah.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
DjLorraine:

Thank you!
  6:56pm
Ochre Ogre:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Handy Haversack:

Thanks, Mark! Sock it to 'em!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Bas NL:

Thanks Mark! The message is clear!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Thank you Mark Hurst!!!

Be well everyone!!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Deano de los Muertos:

thanks Mark!
  6:57pm
chresti:

Thanks Mark!
  6:57pm
Steve Mussolini:

Thanks Mark. Great work. We need some trustbusting.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
StringOFperils:

Thank you.
  6:57pm
Ochre Ogre:

ebay takes a heathy chunk from sellers now too!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ Song: "Keeping Up With Commodore" by "Anders Enger Jensen"
Only Amiga Makes It Possible.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

Thank you, Mark! I always appreciate you and your show. I've learned so much.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Webhamster Henry:

No evil tonight, no siree!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
ultradamno:

The commodore is keeping up with you? On the forefront of surveillance tech
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
dale:

↳ Song: "Keeping Up With Commodore" by "Anders Enger Jensen"
oh god - THIS IS GREAT!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone! Appreciate your support.
  6:59pm
Rolando:

Always a great show
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
ultradamno:

I'm just imagining a navy guy keeping records on me now
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
dale:

i wonder if amiga had a theme song.
  Swag For Life Member 7:03pm
SeaCreature:

I get that the negativity of this show is its central thesis but man I just need to hear something cool about tech fer chrissakes (once in a while)
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