Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from January 29, 2024 Favoriting

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

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Favoriting January 29, 2024: Can we make better choices in tech?

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Today: Can we make better choices in tech?

• The world seems to have chosen the path of maximal technology, no matter the cost. Take the AI server farms that consume immense amounts of energy and clean water – and Big Tech is building more of them. But some people are making better choices – like the boarding school that got rid of smartphones. Tonight, we look at who’s making better – or worse – choices in tech.

October 3, 2022 Techtonic with Douglas Rushkoff, speaking about his book “Survival of the Richest: Escape Fantasies of the Tech Billionaires”

OpenAI CEO Altman says at Davos future AI depends on energy breakthrough (Reuters, Jan 16, 2024): "OpenAI’s CEO Sam Altman on Tuesday said an energy breakthrough is necessary for future artificial intelligence, which will consume vastly more power than people have expected. Speaking at a Bloomberg event on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum’s annual meeting in Davos, Altman said the silver lining is that more climate-friendly sources of energy, particularly nuclear fusion or cheaper solar power and storage, are the way forward for AI." Altman said: "There’s no way to get there without a breakthrough. It motivates us to go invest more in fusion.

Resources on the Dec 11, 2023 playlist (for the interview with Guillaume Pitron, author of “The Dark Cloud”) describe the environmental impact of digital tech. For example, “a 20-question convo with ChatGPT equates to ~500 milliliters of water use, about the size of a water bottle” (source) and “Creating images with... ChatGPT’s Dall-E and Midjourney may produce more carbon than driving 4 miles” (source).

What happens when a school bans smartphones? A complete transformation (Guardian, Jan 17, 2024): Buxton, a Massachusetts boarding school, gave all the students Light Phones (see Dec 2, 2019 show with Joe Hollier, cofounder of the Light Phone):

Most everyone agrees . . . that the school is better off without these hell devices. (And yes, that includes students.) There are fewer interruptions during class, more meaningful interactions around campus, and less time spent on screens. . . .

To an extent, Buxton saw a similar progression through the stages of panic, grief and ultimately some level of acceptance. “When it was announced I practically had a breakdown,” said then senior Max Weeks. And while he’s still not a fan of what he says was a “unilateral” decision to switch to the Light Phone, he said, overall, the experience “hasn’t been as bad as I expected”.
It Sure Looks Like Phones Are Making Students Dumber (by Derek Thompson in the Atlantic, Dec 19, 2023):
[S]tudents who spend less than one hour of “leisure” time on digital devices a day at school scored about 50 points higher in math than students whose eyes are glued to their screens more than five hours a day. This gap held even after adjusting for socioeconomic factors.

. . . Second, screens seem to create a general distraction throughout school, even for students who aren’t always looking at them.

. . . In sum, students who spend more time staring at their phone do worse in school, distract other students around them, and feel worse about their life.
Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known “from the start” (Ars Technica, Jan 19, 2024)
From 1999 to 2015, Fujitsu's faulty accounting software aided in the prosecution and conviction of more than 900 sub-postmasters and postmistresses who were accused of theft or fraud when the software wrongly made it appear that money was missing from their branches.

Some innocent people went to prison, while others were forced to make payments to the UK Post Office to cover the supposed shortfalls. So far, "only 93 convictions have been overturned and thousands of people are still waiting for compensation settlements," a BBC report said.
• The (British) Post Office scandal: First I heard of this was from DjLorraine. From Wikipedia on Paula Vennells:
Vennells was the CEO of Post Office Ltd during the latter part of the British Post Office scandal, which took place between 1999 and 2015 and involved over 900 subpostmasters being wrongly convicted of theft, false accounting and fraud, due to shortfalls at their branches that were in fact errors of the Horizon accounting software used by the Post Office. In 2013, Vennells hired forensic accounting firm Second Sight, headed up by Ron Warmington, to investigate the Horizon software losses. Warmington discovered the system was flawed and faulty, but Vennells was unhappy with Warmington's report and terminated their contract.
Google Update Reveals AI Will Read All Your Private Messages (Forbes, Jan 28, 2024): “Bard will analyze the private content of messages ‘to understand the context of your conversations, your tone, and your interests.’ It will analyze the sentiment of your messages, ‘to tailor its responses to your mood and vibe.’ And it will ‘analyze your message history with different contacts to understand your relationship dynamics… to personalize responses based on who you’re talking to.’”

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  Making better choices in tech
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Listener comments!

Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Hi Mark Hurst and all!!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
ultradamno:

Mark! Tectonelecters!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
chresti:

Hi Mark and techtonicians!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
melinda:

hello friends
  6:01pm
David (in London):

Evening Mark and all Technoids.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

Ahoy, Mark and friends! Looking forward to tonight's show, as always. Tuning in while I put records away and what-not.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
Bas NL:

Hi Mark! Tectonicees!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
DanFA:

Hello Mark. Depress me.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Handy Haversack:

Mark! Techyon Particles!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
DjLorraine:

Thank you Mark Hurst for your selection of guests and topics
Avatar 🤖 6:04pm
MarciB:

Good evening! And thanks for all you do, Mark.
  6:05pm
Chance:

Woooo I finally caught a live show!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
Bas NL:

Call us your TechtoniCloud..
Avatar 🤖 6:08pm
herb.nyc:

Hiya. Mark’s intro makes me think of this:

DO YOU THINK MAYBE WE ARE IN AN ELABORATE SIM AND EVERY TIME WE GO TO SLEEP, WE GET SHIFTED TO A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT EARTH IN THE MULTIVERSE AND THAT'S WHY WHEN WE WAKE UP IT'S WITH THE UNSHAKABLE CONVICTION THAT EVERYTHING IS DEEPLY, DEEPLY WRONG?

-Mira Jacob, opinion / op-art, nyt 12/31/23
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
DanFA:

They'll look back and probably say, they didn't wear enough hats.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

Douglas Rushkoff's books are really good, especially "Survival of the Richest." I highly recommend it. Ask your friendly librarian!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Handy Haversack:

The non-horrible human societies seem to have left fewer marks on the historical record. The societal experiments (which ALL societies are) that had no slaves, oppressed no group, found mutual-aid and democratic methods to solve societal issues, they all tended NOT to work stone, to leave nothing that we can discover however many hundreds, thousands of years later.

WE on the other hand are leaving quite the mark.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Greg from ZONE 5:

Damn, I gotta go back and listen to that full interview.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
Folsom:

Need to ask $mall ¢hange about chinese slave labor, he'll say it doesn't exist.
  6:13pm
P.Welles:

Faustian Bargain
Avatar 🤖 6:16pm
herb.nyc:

↳ Folsom @6:13
Curious? You joke, or serious (I met small change at the gmkt, bec I wore wfmu tee and he bought soil compost from our LES Ecology Center table, and told me who he was)
  6:16pm
SegFish:

Good topic. If we are going to judge, we need to judge equally and fairly. Do PCs use fewer conflict chemicals and slave labor rhan Apple? If a Mac is used for 15yrs vs a PC for 5yrs,does that factor in? In other words, don't let media dictate what you decide or conclude. Its a starting point only
Avatar 🤖 6:16pm
MarciB:

I read "The Dark Cloud" and it was depressing AF. And it's so hard to imagine how I can change my business practices!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
Cassettivity:

Do they not re-cycle the water in the cooling process?
Avatar 🤖 6:17pm
herb.nyc:

Mark also told us how much water is used when we play a YouTube. Ouch Didn’t he?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
ultradamno:

I imagine Grok would be worse if anyone talked to it.
  6:17pm
Andres:

Or a hotdog on a beach.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
DanFA:

↳ herb.nyc @6:17
He is a blaspheemer!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
The Butterman:

How much “rollin’ coal” is one chatgpt prompt?
  6:19pm
P.Welles:

information industrial complex
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
ultradamno:

Clippy could become an AI paper clip
Avatar 🤖 6:20pm
herb.nyc:

“My AI is so smart it has its own AI!”- I’m riffing on a Margaret Cho joke
  6:20pm
SegFish:

Wired once did an article which is now impossible to find about the energy crisis that will be triggered by the Internet of Things.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
G:

Honestly, we're all in the e-bubble when listening to the audio stream and talking here on the e-board.
Avatar 🤖 6:21pm
MarciB:

And then there's the planned obsolescence. I have a 10 yo Mac which can't be updated. Which sucks.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:21pm
DjLorraine:

They would do a ai stapler I bet
Avatar 6:22pm
axlotl:

The heavy computational energy is used in building the LLM. When you ask questions (whether twenty or more or less), that energy has already been spent and answering the questions is trivial for chatGPT.
Avatar 🤖 6:22pm
herb.nyc:

↳ DanFA @6:19
Yes! Lemme turn to wabc77 instead (that’s r-wing lunkheaded radio)
Avatar 6:22pm
axlotl:

Also coolant water is recycled, not lost.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:22pm
G:

"From 1999 to 2015, Fujitsu's faulty accounting software aided in the prosecution and conviction of more than 900 sub-postmasters and postmistresses who were accused of theft or fraud when the software wrongly made it appear that money was missing from their branches."

GIGO
Avatar 🤖 6:22pm
MarciB:

the next iPhone will be even more AI
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY:

Long time listener, occasional commenter. Hello Mark and everyone. Any typos, blame the cat in my lap.
  6:23pm
SegFish:

Microsft is now the whale donor to OpenAI and wants to take the company private. They have also recently quietly removed the moral guideline for AI to not be used for warfare
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Revenue stream of the future: you buy a printer, but to use it, you have to subscribe to the manufacturer's printing service.
  6:24pm
yippie:

Last summer I went to the beaches in Atlantic county and ocean county NJ, by far the most common protest signs I saw were anti wind power plant. Some of them even appeared to be posted by gov. agencies.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Cassettivity:

↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:24
.... and then 3D printer, which is where we get all our goods in the future, but the schematic distribution is controlled and when you are 'bad' you lose access to the newest Nike shoe.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Peter from Saranac Lake NY @6:23
Those are sacred errors, Peter!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

now is the time... ⚛⚡
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
tim:

Hey Mark and all!
  6:27pm
Andres:

Deus Ex Machina will save us!
Avatar 🤖 6:27pm
herb.nyc:

The atom, worlds smallest dongle
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
DanFA:

Mark Zuckerberg is building one. Not surprisingly.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
coelacanth∅:

but, aren't there a lot of poor people that don't really need lights and cooking fuel?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
Mike From Brooklyn:

All of the many current and potential evils of AI aside, usable fusion power would be good.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
tim:

If Altman wants some nuclear fusion, he should tune in to It’s Complicated.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
Mike From Brooklyn:

↳ tim @6:29
Ha Ha
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

↳ tim @6:29
Zing!
  6:29pm
Andres:

↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:24
Cory Doctorow, "Unauthorized Bread".
Avatar 🤖 6:29pm
MarciB:

↳ tim @6:29
lol
Avatar 🤖 6:29pm
herb.nyc:

Doomsday bunker, appears in Cory Doctorow bk RADICALIZED, 4 short stories about future and technology. I like. And he was mark’s past guest
  6:30pm
dano59:

And this is why … Greta Thunberg is done bothering trying to talk sense to these greedy miscreants
Avatar 🤖 6:31pm
herb.nyc:

↳ Andres @6:29
Yay, you read it too!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
DanFA:

I at first mis-heard that as man-eating sandwich.
Avatar 🤖 6:32pm
MarciB:

↳ DanFA @6:32
that would be epic!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
DanFA:

↳ MarciB @6:32
It's a real Audrey 2 from Little Shop of Horrors situation.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
tim:

↳ DanFA @6:32
Now that’s social media worthy!
  6:33pm
hoeg:

Hang on, just listening to https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001vm4q Bidding for keywords in search engines
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
ultradamno:

This thing has to take up more energy than necessary mastodon.social...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
DjLorraine:

I'm in a small telegram group and when they bragged about using gpt chat to help them write important letters and used AI to make stupid art it broke my heart.
  6:34pm
yippie:

Kosher phones
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:35pm
DanFA:

Oof, I used to develop photographs and it was a pain. Godspeed to those students.
Avatar 🤖 6:36pm
MarciB:

And I can hear the anti-analog camera folks saying "oh the horrible chemicals used for developing film and photos!"
Avatar 🤖 6:37pm
MarciB:

↳ DanFA @6:35
Me too - was a custom darkroom tech back in the day!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm
chresti:

I think there's a planet where billionaires can live in their bunkers?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:37pm
DanFA:

↳ MarciB @6:37
I did get to listen to music while developing photos on a communal boombox. Listened to a lot of Sepultura then.
Avatar 6:38pm
mespr:

My son, then 20 invited me to buy lite phones. Thing is, they are too slow. See reMarkable, they might have fixed the problem
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:39pm
ultradamno:

Microsoft's mail autocomplete is creepy...I'm trying to write here, stop telling me how to phrase it.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:40pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ chresti @6:37
I nominate Jupiter.
Avatar 6:40pm
mespr:

↳ ultradamno @6:39
Thank you, yes
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:40pm
Art:

A few years ago, I wrote an essay about such things for counterpunch >>
www.counterpunch.org...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ mespr @6:38
Too slow for what? My partner has one and has never complained about slowness. Like in a delay in the letters appearing when you text?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

There was a TV ad this weekend about the Apple goggles. Gross! Some dad making breakfast for his kid was super creepy.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
chresti:

↳ ultradamno @6:39
So annoying

Handy, perfect!
  6:41pm
danny san:

,,,,wow someone finally shows positive action ,,,,, good ,
good work !!!!!
Avatar 🤖 6:41pm
herb.nyc:

Buxton student newspaper headline- “cellphone ban universally accepted, absent the 2 shooting incidents”
Avatar 🤖 6:42pm
MarciB:

↳ DanFA @6:37
I had my own darkroom + a small radio and was in Boston so I got to listen to Boston College and MIT radio which was great!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
Art:

This was my conclusion, on our choice... >>
Our fundamental human freedom and power is our capacity to work together in groups to make things happen – “wiki.” Freedom of choice in plutocracy is an atomized, commodified world of convenience and consumption – “pod.” Unless capitalism collapses first, wiki versus pod will be a crucial struggle in our quest for democracy over plutocracy.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
DanFA:

↳ MarciB @6:42
Hell yeah!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
Bas NL:

I fear the day when WFMU becomes a social medium.
  6:43pm
Fragonard:

That story is SO scary
Avatar 🤖 6:44pm
herb.nyc:

↳ MarciB @6:42
We made our kitchen a darkroom. Even had to cover the skylight. I miss D-76
Avatar 🤖 6:44pm
MarciB:

↳ herb.nyc @6:44
so cool!
  6:45pm
Fragonard:

Funitsu jujitsu
Avatar 6:45pm
Jeff Moore:

Oh, yeah, that's a crazy story!

A computer system misplaced money, then blamed it on postmasters — and people were charged with crimes purely on the sayso of the software!
  6:45pm
Fragonard:

(Fujiitsu jujitsu)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
melinda:

what a nightmare
Avatar 🤖 6:46pm
herb.nyc:

Fujitsu? I had a fujica st801 film camera. Ewww
  6:47pm
Fragonard:

People had their lives ruined
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Handy Haversack:

Cherchez la techque!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Like in Office Space, maybe the program was siphoning off fractions of British pounds to someone's bank account.
  6:48pm
hoeg:

Great example of how when the computer says no, the operators don't have to think, they just say no too.
  6:50pm
yippie:

Talk about going postal
Avatar 🤖 6:50pm
MarciB:

omg I hope these innocent souls were at least given some restitution...but I'm afraid to know...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
chresti:

wow
  6:51pm
P.Welles:

wow, like Kafka
Avatar 6:52pm
Noir Lover:

You can't snitch on HAL
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

This is a heart-breaking story. I don't even know what else to say. It makes me so sad for all those postal workers, their families, and their friends. Vennells, et al, have a lot to answer for.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
DjLorraine:

I think there were some suicides of innocent people over the stress
  6:54pm
SegFish:

Fantastic metaphor also applies to the mRNA platform
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
PaulRobeson1924:

Hiii
Avatar 🤖 6:55pm
MarciB:

Will Apple start doing the same?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
chresti:

omg
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
ultradamno:

I'll have my AI contact your AI
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Handy Haversack:

Greatest show on the greatest radio station! Many thanks, Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
ultradamno:

Neuralink says they've implanted their first chip in a human www.reuters.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
melinda:

thanks Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Bas NL:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
coelacanth∅:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Thank you Mark Hurst!!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Thanks, Mark. Off to a brighter future!
  6:59pm
danny san:

I live one and one half city blocks from a cell phone tower and the day they switched the power on the first Friday in September at 12:00 noon,2017 . I was driving my truck into the driveway , the world outside began to spin so fast i had to exit the vehicle and crawl the rest of the way into the house and waited for death . Things got vey dark and I began to vomit the 2 oranges i had for a prior meal. I waited because i felt deeply , this was the end. I felt as if i was vey cold and sat in front of a space heater and slowly warmed and after about 20 minuites (more or less. Life slowly returned and I thanked The Earth Mother and the Father Spirit for life.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Song: "Unseen" by "Hyperlink Dream Sync"
Digging the tune!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Bas NL:

↳ Song: "Unseen" by "Hyperlink Dream Sync"
Nice indeed!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

↳ Song: "Unseen" by "Hyperlink Dream Sync"
Are Bandcamp still the good guys? hyperlinkdreamsync.bandcamp.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:02pm
chresti:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar 7:02pm
drumbone:

Welcome back Dave!
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