WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 2, 2020

Listener comments!
	🤖 5:57pm Handy Haversack: Mark and the Techyons! Don't say anything too interesting in the first few minutes ... I gotta vacuum ...
	6:00pm kevlicki: Tech tech techtonic!
	6:00pm David in London: Evening Technoids!
	6:01pm Ike: Hey there all! Uh oh, polls suggest the deeply evil Prop 22 may pass in California, giving Lyft and Uber control over labor laws. EEK! Californians VOTE NO ON 22!
	6:01pm David in London: Howdy Mark. Handy, you missed a bit...
	6:01pm kevlicki: I got my reflectables in the mail the other day!!
	6:01pm Human Barbie, Therapist: Hi Mark and all! Looking forward to this show.
	6:01pm listener james from westwood: Evening, Mark and all!
	🤖 6:02pm Handy Haversack: Ha, it turns out there's a volume setting that can totally handle the vacuum! "Only commit."
	🤖 6:02pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hi, Mark ant Techtobots! 🤖
	6:02pm ultradamno: Mark! Techt 'r Treaters!
	6:02pm Phillippe Bastille: howdy
	6:03pm kevlicki: Ike, does it matter, since they can appeal every case to an anti-labor Supreme Court these days...
	🤖 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: That Onion article is so true.
	🤖 6:03pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! 'Lo Techtonicoids!
	6:04pm Rand al'Thor: Hello, everyone.
	6:04pm David in London: I really enjoyed Skeptech, though due to the time difference I was wilting by the end of it. Ultradamno! Phillippe!
	6:05pm adampsyche: good evening folks
	6:05pm tak: cool skeletons
	6:05pm ultradamno: Hiya DiL!
	6:06pm Ike: @kevlicki, that's a scary thought and you're probably right, unfortunately. Let's fight 'em tooth and claw anyway though.
	6:07pm Phillippe Bastille: election?
	6:12pm melinda: hi friends
	6:14pm David in London: Musicians can always go out on the road and make good money from playing live shows to...oh...no...hang on a minute... Hey Melinda.
	6:16pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining in! @tak, nice skeleton!
	6:16pm Sam: It’s harder for consumers to access content too. I would love to see the new Borat movie. But it’s only available on Amazon Prime? So I guess I’ll never see it. I mean I want to see it but I don’t want to see it THAT bad.
	6:17pm kevlicki: Ike, I’m with you all the way!
	6:17pm Mark Hurst: @Handy but I thought nature abhors a vacuum
	🤖 6:18pm Webhamster Henry: I’m with a group called Musicians for Musicians. Their main thing it to get people to want to pay for music again.
	🤖 6:22pm tim from champaign (now washington): Sheeeeeeeit! That's a fuckin slap in the face getting paid like that. How much money is the streaming companies making?
	6:22pm David in London: I remember boggling when Bowie sold his back catalogue just after the millennium. I couldn’t understand why he’d done it. Of course, it turned out he was way ahead of the game and had seen it all coming even then. I remember he said something to the effect that ‘everyone will have to get used to touring a lot’.
	6:22pm Mark Hurst: @Tim oh just wait until later in the interview when you hear what YouTube revenue is really based on...
	6:23pm mecha maiko: Thank you for having this conversation. I definitely have spent way more money, time and effort working on my music than I have ever made back from sales online.
	6:23pm ultradamno: I believe we have a Bandcamp Friday coming up this week, by the way.
	6:25pm mecha maiko: Another fun thing: I have had some venues/booking agents/promoters who base their fees for artists based on the number of Spotfy followers the artist has in that city... terrified to see Spotify being the benchmark for success.
	6:25pm ultradamno: Well, Rhianna still has money coming from that bitch.
	6:25pm Mark Hurst: @mecha maiko thanks for joining in this evening. I agree, that is a terrifying prospect to base fees on Spotify followers!
	🤖 6:26pm Handy Haversack: Indeed, ultradamno. One of my friends just got a Spotify account because "it has everything, and for almost nothing." Sigh.
	6:26pm kevlicki: So how are labels and the recording industry staying in business? Or even doing “good” business rn?
	6:27pm Sam: Stereolab was cranking out an album a year in their heyday. Not so long ago. And each album was totally different from the last and totally original and brilliant.
	🤖 6:27pm Handy Haversack: Big Tech loves a vacuum, Mark! The vacuum formerly known as competition.
	6:27pm mecha maiko: @kevlicki maybe the comeback of vinyl?
	6:28pm kevlicki: Handy, I just toss a couple dollars at this fledgling station in New Jersey each year and I get 24/7 programming AND 20 years of archives, totally priceless! Donate to WFMU!
	🤖 6:28pm tim from champaign (now washington): I've read interviews with John Waters and David Lynch who have said they're not sure if they'll be able to make a film again because of these reasons.
	6:29pm Mark Hurst: @kevlicki 100%!
	6:30pm mecha maiko: @kevlicki yes sir! The best station of all time!
	6:30pm olivia: @kevlecki, it’s rough out there. A lot of small labels have side gigs of course to fund their label projects. Vinyl comeback is good and bad because it’s expensive to make
	6:31pm kevlicki: mecha maiko, that cannot be the case, physical audio is costly to produce. I need an economist to explain me how TF a label generates revenue in the digital age aside non-touring bands. It’s the artist that gets royalties from licensing music to tv/Netflix/streaming shows, right? Where is the $v
	6:31pm David in London: I remember when I went to see John Carpenter doing his soundtrack live show, and he said explicitly that his movie making career was pretty much over, hence his return to music.
	6:32pm mecha maiko: @kev Wellllllll.... the royalties from said spots depend on who owns the master and what the heck the artist agreed to.
	🤖 6:33pm Handy Haversack: But the TV-delivery platforms are not just delivering TV. They are commoditizing the users as Big Tech is wont to do. So I don't think "last bastion of paying narrative artists" is much of a reason to give a dime to Amazon or Netflix or Hulu or YouTube or CABLE or any of the rest.
	6:34pm mecha maiko: @hand have I raise my glass to you.
	6:36pm ultradamno: Kim Deal election special from Dayton twitter.com...
	6:37pm Carmichael: Everything will begin to change tomorrow. The first day of forever.
	🤖 6:37pm Handy Haversack: Already, Carm? I thought we had more time ...
	6:38pm Carmichael: Tomorrow I will smile again.
	6:39pm The Butterman: Anyone wanna trade Dead tapes with me?
	🤖 6:40pm PaulRobeson1920: Wow 60% of all Ad revenue online is Facebook and Google?
	🤖 6:41pm Ken From Hyde Park: In AI news, soccer cameras have trouble focusing - www.iflscience.com...
	🤖 6:41pm tim from champaign (now washington): Except for streaming FMU, I'm strictly physical media when it comes to music. Since the pandemic started I've been ordering directly from label and artists. It's probably a drop in the bucket but hopefully a larger drop in the bucket paying labels and artists directly.
	🤖 6:41pm tim from champaign (now washington): Free from your library is legit.
	6:42pm melinda: I remember the 'long tail' model, what a load of poo
	6:43pm Mark Hurst: So strange, those tech-utopian promises didn't pan out! Actually turned out to be closer to the opposite...
	🤖 6:43pm PaulRobeson1920: @Thebutterman “Momma killed a Chicken she thought it was Duck. Laid em on the table with his feet stickin up! Ain't it crazy?”
	🤖 6:43pm tim from champaign (now washington): "Long Tail" = Trickle Down Economics.
	🤖 6:44pm Handy Haversack: Long tail ... poo .. trickle down ... math checks out!
	6:44pm The Butterman: PaulRobeson! That’s the rub!
	6:44pm Peter from Dover NJ: @ Tim from Champaign: good point.
	6:44pm The Butterman: Awesome!
	6:44pm melinda: @Handy lol
	6:44pm Mark Hurst: "What doo economics? Voo doo economics."
	6:45pm Peter from Dover NJ: Mark, where do you think Bandcamp falls on the spectrum of internet platforms dealing music?
	6:46pm mecha maiko: MARK. UGH, you are my hero. The fact that I don't hear these discussions anywhere else makes me sad but also so so happy that this show exists.
	6:46pm Mark Hurst: @Peter I like Bandcamp. Should do a show about their good work & much more fair compensation to artists...
	6:47pm mecha maiko: I would love if Bandcamp would just bypass Paypal. Or pressure them to also waive THEIR fees on BC fridays.
	🤖 6:47pm tim from champaign (now washington): I assume that big tech CEOs and most tech decision makers actually have no interest in any form of art.
	6:48pm Mark Hurst: @mecha thanks - though I agree, it's unfortunate that it's rare to hear someone like Bill giving this message in other tech shows.
	6:49pm Carmichael: @mecha, how about if I Venmo you, and you send me the digital files? Just a thought ...
	6:49pm mecha maiko: @carmichael I've done it before, and I'll do it again. Although I don't actually have venmo. Have to check mark's list for the best money-sending platform.
	🤖 6:50pm Handy Haversack: mecha, send jars of pennies -- helps the PO also!
	6:50pm Mark Hurst: I need to do more research on payment systems (if anyone has good alternatives, let me know!)
	6:50pm mecha maiko: @mark - mailing cheques'?
	6:50pm Richard S: Hello! Just wondering if people here have any thoughts about OpenStreetMap.org which says it's "a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license."
	🤖 6:50pm tim from champaign (now washington): I just put Bill's book on my "to read" list at my library.
	6:51pm Mark Hurst: Postal mail and printed checks, I like it. Though it's considered pretty out-of-date in most of the world, I think
	🤖 6:51pm PaulRobeson1920: Joe Hill’s immortal words
	🤖 6:51pm Handy Haversack: Richard S., that's what I use instead of Google Maps.
	6:51pm Mark Hurst: @Richard I like OpenStreetMap. Some questions around governance I have to look into but generally speaking they're a much, much better alternative to fully-surveilled Google Maps
	6:52pm mecha maiko: Could be the next low-tech revival. I'm out - good night all. Be stronk. You're all lovely people.
	6:52pm Carmichael: www.moneyunder30.com...
	🤖 6:52pm Handy Haversack: I wish there were an ethical ebay alternative after the revelations out of THAT shop earlier this year.
	6:52pm Mark Hurst: Ugh, eBay. There's a followup to that story I need to cover. Unbelievable.
	🤖 6:53pm Handy Haversack: Totally unhinged. I always used it with distaste, but after that, nope. Unrelated, but does anyone here want to buy a sizable number of D&D books? I need shelf space!
	6:54pm Peter from Dover NJ: "Fast art." Wow. Just wow. He's not wrong.
	6:54pm Mark Hurst: Let's start the new eBay right here in the comment board!
	6:54pm melinda: I missed the ebay story
	6:54pm Sam: I’ve got a bridge to sell
	🤖 6:55pm Handy Haversack: I used to be part of a D&D book market that let collectors engage with one another directly. It was on Google Plus. We are doomed. But that said, OK, Mark, I'm in!
	6:55pm Phillippe Bastille: Had a conversation with Mike Doughty at a meet and greet after a concert and he told me he got so little money from the label when Soul Coughing was big that he had to write reviews (can't recall if they were movie or music) on the side to be able to make rent.
	🤖 6:55pm PaulRobeson1920: I got a mason jar. Starting bid 3 dollars
	6:55pm David in London: Cup of tea. Nearly new. $1.
	6:55pm ultradamno: But how do artists make money if they can't sell their fingertips or whatever on eBay?
	🤖 6:56pm PaulRobeson1920: I’ve been looking for a cup of tea! What luck!
	6:56pm Phillippe Bastille: David in London, isn't this past your bed time?
	6:56pm Human Barbie, Therapist: Great interview again, Mark, thanks Mecha for your input.
	6:56pm djsheilab: Mark! Thanks to you + Bill for this exceptional show. It’s inspiring me to further explore how I can be more helpful in this fight for artists and their livelihoods. Going to buy the book at my local bookstore. THANK YOU!!!
	🤖 6:56pm Ken From Hyde Park: $5 for my pile of firewood out back.
	🤖 6:57pm herb.nyc: Wow. So much said in such a short time. Thx, mark.
	🤖 6:57pm Handy Haversack: David, I'll trade you a half pint of Carling. Thanks, Mark! And thanks to Bill as well. Be well, Techyon Drives.
	6:57pm David in London: Phillippe, I’m listening under the bed covers so mum and dad can’t hear.
	6:57pm Sam: I have a bunch of pet rocks to sell. Top notch, pure bred. They just need a good home.
	🤖 6:57pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark & Bill!
	6:57pm a5vzener: Great interview. Thanks Mark! There needs to be legislation! VOTE!
	6:58pm Phillippe Bastille: @David great batteries!
	🤖 6:58pm Handy Haversack: Kate's getting the book, too! At Word in Greenpoint -- other location in Jersey City!
	6:58pm Megaroni: Yes it’s criminal how they pay the musicians a tenth of a penny, wtf!!
	6:58pm melinda: My Techtonic Tips booklet arrived, thanks!
	🤖 6:58pm tim from champaign (now washington): Thanks, Mark! Excellent interview and topic.
	🤖 6:58pm Tank Top: Anyone else cringe when they hear "creators".
	6:58pm P-90: Goal AND “Stretch Goal”! Congrats everyone...
	6:58pm David in London: Thanks Mark. Great show. See you later Groovers.
	6:58pm Phillippe Bastille: Thanks Mark
	🤖 6:59pm PaulRobeson1920: Good Stuff! Gotta LoVe WFMU!
	6:59pm a5vzener: GOG
	6:59pm PJ: Big Tech is enabled in its efforts to ripoff artists by the complicity of the consumers of the art they ripoff.
	🤖 6:59pm Handy Haversack: 'Night, David!
	6:59pm melinda: @Tank Top I do when I hear 'creatives'
	6:59pm Mark Hurst: @DiL thanks! And thanks for showing up so late at night for Skeptech.
	🤖 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park: Haha ... who's pumpkin is that?
	7:00pm PJ: @melinda: "Creatives" equates ad professionals with people who actually make art. It's all "content" for the internet.
	7:08pm P-90: Sounds a little like one of those panel shows on Fox...
	5:22pm Ed: Great interview Mark! Although I have to admit that as an artist it did depress me. On the plus side though I did buy Bill's book!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 2, 2020

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Nov 4th, 6pm - 7pm: Dystopia update (More info...)
Chatbots are now running rampant - appearing in new-model cars - as we're being told to "be nice to chatbots." Stores are using "digital price tags," which rely on surveillance to set the price to the company's liking. Meantime, Google's AI is giving wrong answers, in some cases, almost half the time. All these and more in Mark's dystopia update.
Mon. Dec 23rd, 6pm - 7pm: Don Fleming guest hosts Techtonic

November 2, 2020: William Deresiewicz, author, "The Death of the Artist"

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Tonight: William Deresiewicz, author, "The Death of the Artist"

Pointers:

• The Death of the Artist: How Creators Are Struggling to Survive in the Age of Billionaires and Big Tech, by Bill Deresiewicz

• @WDeresiewicz (Bill Deresiewicz on Twitter)

• billderesiewicz.com (website)

• Spotify Celebrates 100th Dollar Given To Artists (The Onion, Sep 3, 2020): "Spotify CEO Daniel Ek, posing with a giant check for a $0.00000029 payout that propelled the world's musicians past a collective $100 in earnings. 'This is an absolute milestone for a musician-oriented platform like Spotify, and confirms what we believed when we started, which is that music-streaming platforms can be a reliable way to help bands and artists earn pennies or even nickels for their work. But this achievement is really about the artists on our platform. Spotify couldn't have done it without you.'"

• Spotify to offer artists and labels the option to promote their music in your recommendations (The Fader, Nov 2, 2020): "In exchange for a lowered 'promotional recording royalty rate.'"

- - -

PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Album	Approx. start time
William Deresiewicz talks about his book "The Death of the Artist."
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"	Machinarium Soundtrack
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with Bill Deresiewicz "Interview with Bill Deresiewicz"		0:12:14 (Pop-up)
	Mark's comments after the interview "Mark's comments after the interview"		0:53:43 (Pop-up)
The Pink Tiles	Internet "Internet" by "The Pink Tiles"		0:56:48 (Pop-up)

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| E-mail Mark Hurst | Other WFMU Playlists | All artists played by Techtonic with Mark Hurst |

Listener comments!
	🤖 5:57pm Handy Haversack: Mark and the Techyons! Don't say anything too interesting in the first few minutes ... I gotta vacuum ...
	6:00pm kevlicki: Tech tech techtonic!
	6:00pm David in London: Evening Technoids!
	6:01pm Ike: Hey there all! Uh oh, polls suggest the deeply evil Prop 22 may pass in California, giving Lyft and Uber control over labor laws. EEK! Californians VOTE NO ON 22!
	6:01pm David in London: Howdy Mark. Handy, you missed a bit...
	6:01pm kevlicki: I got my reflectables in the mail the other day!!
	6:01pm Human Barbie, Therapist: Hi Mark and all! Looking forward to this show.
	6:01pm listener james from westwood: Evening, Mark and all!
	🤖 6:02pm Handy Haversack: Ha, it turns out there's a volume setting that can totally handle the vacuum! "Only commit."
	🤖 6:02pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hi, Mark ant Techtobots! 🤖
	6:02pm ultradamno: Mark! Techt 'r Treaters!
	6:02pm Phillippe Bastille: howdy
	6:03pm kevlicki: Ike, does it matter, since they can appeal every case to an anti-labor Supreme Court these days...
	🤖 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: That Onion article is so true.
	🤖 6:03pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! 'Lo Techtonicoids!
	6:04pm Rand al'Thor: Hello, everyone.
	6:04pm David in London: I really enjoyed Skeptech, though due to the time difference I was wilting by the end of it. Ultradamno! Phillippe!
	6:05pm adampsyche: good evening folks
	6:05pm tak: cool skeletons
	6:05pm ultradamno: Hiya DiL!
	6:06pm Ike: @kevlicki, that's a scary thought and you're probably right, unfortunately. Let's fight 'em tooth and claw anyway though.
	6:07pm Phillippe Bastille: election?
	6:12pm melinda: hi friends
	6:14pm David in London: Musicians can always go out on the road and make good money from playing live shows to...oh...no...hang on a minute... Hey Melinda.
	6:16pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining in! @tak, nice skeleton!
	6:16pm Sam: It’s harder for consumers to access content too. I would love to see the new Borat movie. But it’s only available on Amazon Prime? So I guess I’ll never see it. I mean I want to see it but I don’t want to see it THAT bad.
	6:17pm kevlicki: Ike, I’m with you all the way!
	6:17pm Mark Hurst: @Handy but I thought nature abhors a vacuum
	🤖 6:18pm Webhamster Henry: I’m with a group called Musicians for Musicians. Their main thing it to get people to want to pay for music again.
	🤖 6:22pm tim from champaign (now washington): Sheeeeeeeit! That's a fuckin slap in the face getting paid like that. How much money is the streaming companies making?
	6:22pm David in London: I remember boggling when Bowie sold his back catalogue just after the millennium. I couldn’t understand why he’d done it. Of course, it turned out he was way ahead of the game and had seen it all coming even then. I remember he said something to the effect that ‘everyone will have to get used to touring a lot’.
	6:22pm Mark Hurst: @Tim oh just wait until later in the interview when you hear what YouTube revenue is really based on...
	6:23pm mecha maiko: Thank you for having this conversation. I definitely have spent way more money, time and effort working on my music than I have ever made back from sales online.
	6:23pm ultradamno: I believe we have a Bandcamp Friday coming up this week, by the way.
	6:25pm mecha maiko: Another fun thing: I have had some venues/booking agents/promoters who base their fees for artists based on the number of Spotfy followers the artist has in that city... terrified to see Spotify being the benchmark for success.
	6:25pm ultradamno: Well, Rhianna still has money coming from that bitch.
	6:25pm Mark Hurst: @mecha maiko thanks for joining in this evening. I agree, that is a terrifying prospect to base fees on Spotify followers!
	🤖 6:26pm Handy Haversack: Indeed, ultradamno. One of my friends just got a Spotify account because "it has everything, and for almost nothing." Sigh.
	6:26pm kevlicki: So how are labels and the recording industry staying in business? Or even doing “good” business rn?
	6:27pm Sam: Stereolab was cranking out an album a year in their heyday. Not so long ago. And each album was totally different from the last and totally original and brilliant.
	🤖 6:27pm Handy Haversack: Big Tech loves a vacuum, Mark! The vacuum formerly known as competition.
	6:27pm mecha maiko: @kevlicki maybe the comeback of vinyl?
	6:28pm kevlicki: Handy, I just toss a couple dollars at this fledgling station in New Jersey each year and I get 24/7 programming AND 20 years of archives, totally priceless! Donate to WFMU!
	🤖 6:28pm tim from champaign (now washington): I've read interviews with John Waters and David Lynch who have said they're not sure if they'll be able to make a film again because of these reasons.
	6:29pm Mark Hurst: @kevlicki 100%!
	6:30pm mecha maiko: @kevlicki yes sir! The best station of all time!
	6:30pm olivia: @kevlecki, it’s rough out there. A lot of small labels have side gigs of course to fund their label projects. Vinyl comeback is good and bad because it’s expensive to make
	6:31pm kevlicki: mecha maiko, that cannot be the case, physical audio is costly to produce. I need an economist to explain me how TF a label generates revenue in the digital age aside non-touring bands. It’s the artist that gets royalties from licensing music to tv/Netflix/streaming shows, right? Where is the $v
	6:31pm David in London: I remember when I went to see John Carpenter doing his soundtrack live show, and he said explicitly that his movie making career was pretty much over, hence his return to music.
	6:32pm mecha maiko: @kev Wellllllll.... the royalties from said spots depend on who owns the master and what the heck the artist agreed to.
	🤖 6:33pm Handy Haversack: But the TV-delivery platforms are not just delivering TV. They are commoditizing the users as Big Tech is wont to do. So I don't think "last bastion of paying narrative artists" is much of a reason to give a dime to Amazon or Netflix or Hulu or YouTube or CABLE or any of the rest.
	6:34pm mecha maiko: @hand have I raise my glass to you.
	6:36pm ultradamno: Kim Deal election special from Dayton twitter.com...
	6:37pm Carmichael: Everything will begin to change tomorrow. The first day of forever.
	🤖 6:37pm Handy Haversack: Already, Carm? I thought we had more time ...
	6:38pm Carmichael: Tomorrow I will smile again.
	6:39pm The Butterman: Anyone wanna trade Dead tapes with me?
	🤖 6:40pm PaulRobeson1920: Wow 60% of all Ad revenue online is Facebook and Google?
	🤖 6:41pm Ken From Hyde Park: In AI news, soccer cameras have trouble focusing - www.iflscience.com...
	🤖 6:41pm tim from champaign (now washington): Except for streaming FMU, I'm strictly physical media when it comes to music. Since the pandemic started I've been ordering directly from label and artists. It's probably a drop in the bucket but hopefully a larger drop in the bucket paying labels and artists directly.
	🤖 6:41pm tim from champaign (now washington): Free from your library is legit.
	6:42pm melinda: I remember the 'long tail' model, what a load of poo
	6:43pm Mark Hurst: So strange, those tech-utopian promises didn't pan out! Actually turned out to be closer to the opposite...
	🤖 6:43pm PaulRobeson1920: @Thebutterman “Momma killed a Chicken she thought it was Duck. Laid em on the table with his feet stickin up! Ain't it crazy?”
	🤖 6:43pm tim from champaign (now washington): "Long Tail" = Trickle Down Economics.
	🤖 6:44pm Handy Haversack: Long tail ... poo .. trickle down ... math checks out!
	6:44pm The Butterman: PaulRobeson! That’s the rub!
	6:44pm Peter from Dover NJ: @ Tim from Champaign: good point.
	6:44pm The Butterman: Awesome!
	6:44pm melinda: @Handy lol
	6:44pm Mark Hurst: "What doo economics? Voo doo economics."
	6:45pm Peter from Dover NJ: Mark, where do you think Bandcamp falls on the spectrum of internet platforms dealing music?
	6:46pm mecha maiko: MARK. UGH, you are my hero. The fact that I don't hear these discussions anywhere else makes me sad but also so so happy that this show exists.
	6:46pm Mark Hurst: @Peter I like Bandcamp. Should do a show about their good work & much more fair compensation to artists...
	6:47pm mecha maiko: I would love if Bandcamp would just bypass Paypal. Or pressure them to also waive THEIR fees on BC fridays.
	🤖 6:47pm tim from champaign (now washington): I assume that big tech CEOs and most tech decision makers actually have no interest in any form of art.
	6:48pm Mark Hurst: @mecha thanks - though I agree, it's unfortunate that it's rare to hear someone like Bill giving this message in other tech shows.
	6:49pm Carmichael: @mecha, how about if I Venmo you, and you send me the digital files? Just a thought ...
	6:49pm mecha maiko: @carmichael I've done it before, and I'll do it again. Although I don't actually have venmo. Have to check mark's list for the best money-sending platform.
	🤖 6:50pm Handy Haversack: mecha, send jars of pennies -- helps the PO also!
	6:50pm Mark Hurst: I need to do more research on payment systems (if anyone has good alternatives, let me know!)
	6:50pm mecha maiko: @mark - mailing cheques'?
	6:50pm Richard S: Hello! Just wondering if people here have any thoughts about OpenStreetMap.org which says it's "a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license."
	🤖 6:50pm tim from champaign (now washington): I just put Bill's book on my "to read" list at my library.
	6:51pm Mark Hurst: Postal mail and printed checks, I like it. Though it's considered pretty out-of-date in most of the world, I think
	🤖 6:51pm PaulRobeson1920: Joe Hill’s immortal words
	🤖 6:51pm Handy Haversack: Richard S., that's what I use instead of Google Maps.
	6:51pm Mark Hurst: @Richard I like OpenStreetMap. Some questions around governance I have to look into but generally speaking they're a much, much better alternative to fully-surveilled Google Maps
	6:52pm mecha maiko: Could be the next low-tech revival. I'm out - good night all. Be stronk. You're all lovely people.
	6:52pm Carmichael: www.moneyunder30.com...
	🤖 6:52pm Handy Haversack: I wish there were an ethical ebay alternative after the revelations out of THAT shop earlier this year.
	6:52pm Mark Hurst: Ugh, eBay. There's a followup to that story I need to cover. Unbelievable.
	🤖 6:53pm Handy Haversack: Totally unhinged. I always used it with distaste, but after that, nope. Unrelated, but does anyone here want to buy a sizable number of D&D books? I need shelf space!
	6:54pm Peter from Dover NJ: "Fast art." Wow. Just wow. He's not wrong.
	6:54pm Mark Hurst: Let's start the new eBay right here in the comment board!
	6:54pm melinda: I missed the ebay story
	6:54pm Sam: I’ve got a bridge to sell
	🤖 6:55pm Handy Haversack: I used to be part of a D&D book market that let collectors engage with one another directly. It was on Google Plus. We are doomed. But that said, OK, Mark, I'm in!
	6:55pm Phillippe Bastille: Had a conversation with Mike Doughty at a meet and greet after a concert and he told me he got so little money from the label when Soul Coughing was big that he had to write reviews (can't recall if they were movie or music) on the side to be able to make rent.
	🤖 6:55pm PaulRobeson1920: I got a mason jar. Starting bid 3 dollars
	6:55pm David in London: Cup of tea. Nearly new. $1.
	6:55pm ultradamno: But how do artists make money if they can't sell their fingertips or whatever on eBay?
	🤖 6:56pm PaulRobeson1920: I’ve been looking for a cup of tea! What luck!
	6:56pm Phillippe Bastille: David in London, isn't this past your bed time?
	6:56pm Human Barbie, Therapist: Great interview again, Mark, thanks Mecha for your input.
	6:56pm djsheilab: Mark! Thanks to you + Bill for this exceptional show. It’s inspiring me to further explore how I can be more helpful in this fight for artists and their livelihoods. Going to buy the book at my local bookstore. THANK YOU!!!
	🤖 6:56pm Ken From Hyde Park: $5 for my pile of firewood out back.
	🤖 6:57pm herb.nyc: Wow. So much said in such a short time. Thx, mark.
	🤖 6:57pm Handy Haversack: David, I'll trade you a half pint of Carling. Thanks, Mark! And thanks to Bill as well. Be well, Techyon Drives.
	6:57pm David in London: Phillippe, I’m listening under the bed covers so mum and dad can’t hear.
	6:57pm Sam: I have a bunch of pet rocks to sell. Top notch, pure bred. They just need a good home.
	🤖 6:57pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark & Bill!
	6:57pm a5vzener: Great interview. Thanks Mark! There needs to be legislation! VOTE!
	6:58pm Phillippe Bastille: @David great batteries!
	🤖 6:58pm Handy Haversack: Kate's getting the book, too! At Word in Greenpoint -- other location in Jersey City!
	6:58pm Megaroni: Yes it’s criminal how they pay the musicians a tenth of a penny, wtf!!
	6:58pm melinda: My Techtonic Tips booklet arrived, thanks!
	🤖 6:58pm tim from champaign (now washington): Thanks, Mark! Excellent interview and topic.
	🤖 6:58pm Tank Top: Anyone else cringe when they hear "creators".
	6:58pm P-90: Goal AND “Stretch Goal”! Congrats everyone...
	6:58pm David in London: Thanks Mark. Great show. See you later Groovers.
	6:58pm Phillippe Bastille: Thanks Mark
	🤖 6:59pm PaulRobeson1920: Good Stuff! Gotta LoVe WFMU!
	6:59pm a5vzener: GOG
	6:59pm PJ: Big Tech is enabled in its efforts to ripoff artists by the complicity of the consumers of the art they ripoff.
	🤖 6:59pm Handy Haversack: 'Night, David!
	6:59pm melinda: @Tank Top I do when I hear 'creatives'
	6:59pm Mark Hurst: @DiL thanks! And thanks for showing up so late at night for Skeptech.
	🤖 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park: Haha ... who's pumpkin is that?
	7:00pm PJ: @melinda: "Creatives" equates ad professionals with people who actually make art. It's all "content" for the internet.
	7:08pm P-90: Sounds a little like one of those panel shows on Fox...
	5:22pm Ed: Great interview Mark! Although I have to admit that as an artist it did depress me. On the plus side though I did buy Bill's book!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 2, 2020

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