WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 25, 2019

Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Hello Mark! Techsparent Metallitons!
	6:00pm queems: hi mark & all
	6:01pm queems: i watched that whole sacha baron cohen speech; it was fantastic
	🤖 6:01pm Webhamster Henry: Are You A Robot? Please click on all the surveillance cameras!
	6:01pm ultradamno: Hey kids, let's all go huck pinballs at ol' Mr. Musk's ugly new truck!
	6:01pm geezerette: Wow!
	🤖 6:02pm Webhamster Henry: I like that brutalist Tesla truck! I think you can stack them easily.
	6:02pm Dave Miss: Howdy from BK! TB Lee w new decentralized interwebs!
	6:02pm melinda: Hi group
	6:02pm listener james from westwood: Evening, Mark and all!
	6:03pm tak: Ali G was incredibly on point. I'm sure he's a listener
	🤖 6:03pm Ken From Hyde Park: Watch your necks, Techturkeys!
	🤖 6:04pm Handy Haversack: Hi, all.
	🤖 6:05pm Webhamster Henry: It's good to take a week off from interviews!
	🤖 6:06pm chresti: Hi Mark and Technotic
	🤖 6:07pm Ken From Hyde Park: It's also the start of the season of insipid ads showing muppets hawking those stupid spy camera picture phone devices.
	6:08pm ultradamno: It play off this www.forbes.com...
	🤖 6:10pm Bas NL: Mark! All!
	🤖 6:10pm Folsom: Since Mark is posting funny Yoda pics, here is another imgur.com...
	6:10pm listener james from westwood: Let's not mince words: Swatting is done to get the victims killed.
	6:11pm jp: Just a comment, people have died from being swatted, not just a method of harassment.
	6:11pm geezerette: Musk is on the road to Phil Spectorism.
	6:11pm mariano: Jesus, Tesla is vile. They swatted one of their own former employees? I thought it was bad enough when Musk called that English guy in Thailand a "pedo guy". What an affront to the name of Nikola Tesla.
	6:12pm geezerette: Musk is nuts.
	6:12pm ultradamno: "Yup. Sledgehammer impact on door cracked base of glass, which is why steel ball didn’t bounce off. Should have done steel ball on window, then sledgehammer the door. Next time …" - Musk Does that make it any more successful? www.cnet.com...
	6:12pm Sam: Can they prove Tesla swatted him? If so, they’re done, that’s seriously seriously illegal. The whistle blower might be in for a sweet settlement.
	6:12pm queems: can elon musk just stop
	🤖 6:13pm Handy Haversack: @listener James: Yup. It's targeted assassination dice.
	6:13pm geezerette: queems, fist bump.
	6:14pm queems: @geezerette i want to fist bump elon musk in the nose
	6:15pm ultradamno: www.theonion.com...
	6:15pm Bob a: Well I better start wearing pants in the backyard.
	6:15pm geezerette: total agreement,queems.
	6:16pm David: Just opt out of the idiocy and don't buy anything from Amazon.
	6:17pm Sam: Reading people’s lame Facebook posts is a human rights abuse in itself.
	6:18pm geezerette: Let's start with Uber's name. Not hiding intentions.
	6:19pm queems: i don't use uber for a lot of reasons, so just add this to the list
	6:20pm geezerette: Cognitive dissonance is the new sanity.
	6:20pm Sam: You need the recordings for protection in case the unscreened, untrained driver assaults you. All part of the business model.
	6:21pm geezerette: We're in trouble.
	🤖 6:22pm Bas NL: No, no! We care for the safety of your money!
	6:24pm geezerette: Ha! Bas...:)
	6:26pm Sam: Tech companies + Trump = the end of civilization
	🤖 6:27pm Bas NL: Hi geezerette!
	6:30pm geezerette: "innovation" Tyranny is as old as people.
	6:30pm china defender, swag4life: whoa this guy sounds like narduwaar
	6:31pm ignatatus666: People farming Because people are Sheeple or Cows to be herded
	🤖 6:32pm chresti: I suppose all those satellites can surveille us as well..
	6:32pm geezerette: Hey,Chresti!
	🤖 6:33pm chresti: Hi geez!
	6:34pm tak: just a bunch of weird toolbars way back then
	6:35pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: So - it's so much worse than Monopolies like the 19th Century Robber Barons & Wealth Inequality... It's the end of the Bill of Rights - of Privacy - of Identity itself...
	6:38pm ultradamno: Is Roy Moore still suing him for the Who Is America interview?
	6:39pm Sam: This would be so much better in the Borat voice.
	6:40pm queems: i can't pay attention to anything but i watched this whole speech
	6:41pm Bob a: Cut Musk some slack. Tesla’s the only entity making a concerted effort to put electric cars on the road.
	6:42pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: & Hitler made trains run on time...
	🤖 6:43pm Folsom: @Bob also we should just cut Musk some slack about "pedo man"! Just a joke!
	6:43pm geezerette: Mark, this show is necessary.
	6:43pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, geezerette!
	6:45pm geezerette: Baron Cohen for Parliament!!! Or Senator...
	6:45pm melinda: Social media platforms like Facebook are too big to effectively and fairly restrict speech.
	6:46pm coelacanth∅: greetings Mark
	6:46pm Mark Hurst: Hi coel!
	6:47pm ignatatus666: He won’t touch the racism that is Zionism I wonder why?
	6:47pm Sam: I don’t know if I agree. The internet also allows us to get access to real true facts like never before. You can look up a statistic or fact on Wikipedia in seconds. And it’s harder to hide atrocities. Everyone sees what’s happening in Hong Kong. It would’ve been much harder to ship people off to death camps and keep them secret if there were ubiquitous cell phone cameras in WWII.
	6:47pm SheWolf: I agree, Melinda. There's nothing wrong with what he's saying of course. It's just unworkable.
	6:49pm melinda: I agree they should somehow be held responsible for a faulty product though.
	6:50pm tak: ignat he mentions it yes. He's not commenting on racist actions, he's making a speech of the facilitation of such by these big tech guys
	6:50pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: @Sam : But the Internet is corralled thru these few Companies.
	6:50pm brainiac: Guess it's pointless to SWAT the Zuckster
	6:51pm queems: do not pass go
	🤖 6:51pm chresti: They have to hire flaggers or editors, for starters, the facebergs
	6:51pm coelacanth∅: this man seems to be missing something...the fact that the us government is essentially one of these corporations.
	🤖 6:52pm Handy Haversack: These companies have no a priori reason or right to exist. If we assert that their practices are harmful and regulate them and the companies don't comply, then they face the penalties. Why should we once again let the capitalists make all the rules? Prosecute, penalize, and hope they collapse under the weight of their own greed once the jail sentences come.
	6:52pm geezerette: Thanks again, Mark! Happy holiday,all!
	6:53pm brainiac: @Handy excellent post. Agree wholeheartedly
	6:53pm ignatatus666: Boy I miss MySpace we didn’t have these issues
	🤖 6:54pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	6:54pm ultradamno: FX news magazine show The Weekly was about deep fakes this week.
	6:55pm tak: the whole thing is almost 30 minutes long. I didn't think he missed out on much to be quite honest. He presents some questionable solutions which is what I think Mark was talking about earlier, but other than that it's all very factual.
	6:55pm melinda: Goldblum sounded fake
	6:56pm Sam: Are the voices fake, by imitators? Or is it their voices from different interviews spliced together?
	6:56pm listener 126464: Thanks Mark
	🤖 6:56pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark!
	6:57pm melinda: Go London
	🤖 6:57pm Handy Haversack: Thanks for the show, Mark. Another necessary hour.
	6:57pm tak: us government could be confused by a corporation if it wasn't for the fact that it is not. you can vote on it. and that is his point, these people weren't elected at all.
	6:57pm coelacanth∅: yay! Fuck uber!
	6:58pm Dave Miss: Thanks Mark
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Don't you dare hit the 'hate' button!
	6:58pm Sam: Why doesn’t every city just rescind Ubrr’s lisence? Problem solved. Why did they allow taxi medallions to plummet in value leading to tons of suicides? I don’t get it.
	7:00pm tak: thanks and amazing pictures btw. top production
	7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	🤖 7:00pm Webhamster Henry: Fake Voices by LyreBird (now part of Descript) www.descript.com...
	7:01pm P-90: Thanks, Mark
	7:03pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark!
	11:14am qolin: Mark! Religious listener in Osaka, Japan. Just wanted to say that the links on deletefacebook all seem to result in "we are down for maintenance, try later" type messages. I deactivated both facebook and instagram a long time ago, but is it really possible to get to a true deletion through deletefacebook? just wondering because (a) you often recommend the site and (b) it's something I'd really like to do. Keep up the great work!
	9:31pm Mark Hurst: Hi qolin, thanks for listening! The deletefacebook.com link seems to work for me... maybe try again to see if it's back up. Anyway, yes, it appears that your FB account would be truly deleted (though Facebook would likely continue to maintain a "shadow dossier" on you after that). I still recommend deleting your FB and Instagram accounts!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 25, 2019

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Dec 23rd, 6pm - 7pm: Don Fleming guest hosts Techtonic

November 25, 2019: Voices in tech: Sacha Baron Cohen, Aral Balkan, and Dr. Chris Gilliard

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Image above from Fare Game comic, by Michael Keller and Josh Neufeld.
See also Uber plans to start audio-recording rides in the U.S. for safety (WaPo, Nov 20)

Tonight, voices in tech - featuring Sacha Baron Cohen, Aral Balkan, and Dr. Chris Gilliard.

• Sacha Baron Cohen's Keynote Address at ADL's 2019 Never Is Now Summit on Anti-Semitism and Hate (Nov 21, 2019)

• Aral Balkan at the European Parliament (Nov 20, 2019). See also Aral's slides.

• Dr. Chris Gilliard on the Role of Big Data in Financial Services (Nov 19, 2019), a House Financial Services Committee hearing: "Predatory inclusion reproduces inequality and insecurity for some, while allowing already dominant social actors to derive significant profits." On the Apple/Goldman Sachs credit card: "Opaque algorithms affect marginalized populations all the time. . . For rich folks, it may mean being denied a larger credit limit; for the poor this may mean paying for medicine, shelter or food."

• Deepfake Roundtable featuring (all fake!) Tom Cruise, George Lucas, Robert Downey Jr., Ewan McGregor, and Jeff Goldblum. Unfortunately it's on toxic YouTube but worth seeing the state of deepfake audio and video. (See also: Internet Companies Prepare to Fight the 'Deepfake' Future, NYT, Nov 24: "Researchers are creating tools to find A.I.-generated fake videos before they become impossible to detect. Some experts fear it is a losing battle.")

• PBS Frontline: In the Age of AI: excellent documentary.

Also in tech news:

• Speaking of whistleblowers in tech (see last week's episode), Dr. Sarah Taber summarizes this week's Tesla news. No, not their ridiculous armored truck. Instead, Taber writes, it's this:

Police records showing:

1. a Tesla employee found a lot of serious safety problems

2. he told Tesla & they did nothing

3. so he talked to the press

4. and it seems Tesla not only fired him, but SWATted him in retaliation.

See the police report.

• Oh and see also how Elon Musk's Starlink is starting to fill the night sky, affecting astronomers' work (Nov 19).

• Police can keep Amazon Ring camera video forever and share with whomever they'd like (WaPo, Nov 19)

• Facebook And Google's Pervasive Surveillance Poses An Unprecedented Danger To Human Rights (Amnesty International, Nov 20): "Despite the real value of the services they provide, Google and Facebook's platforms come at a systemic cost. The companies' surveillance-based business model forces people to make a Faustian bargain, whereby they are only able to enjoy their human rights online by submitting to a system predicated on human rights abuse."

• Scott Galloway (Nov 15): "The S&P is up 23% YTD, and the number of girls that decide to take their own life is up 151%. Three times more of them self-harm. The pursuit of money at the expense of girls' wellbeing is the ultimate perversion of our society. We ignore injury to our daughters in exchange for the promise of economic growth. . . . Facebook is species failure."

- - -

Get off Facebook and Instagram - if you can!

Get off Google (and Gmail, Waze, Google Maps, Android, and Chrome) - if you can!

Shop local and avoid Amazon - when you can!

And stay off TikTok unless you enjoy being surveilled by the Chinese Communist Party!

Sites to use:

- StopUsingFacebook.co: why to stop using Facebook and what to replace it with
- DeleteFacebook.com
- NoMoreGoogle.com
- Ethical.net resources

- - -

Check out techtonic.fm for recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Voices in tech: Sacha Baron Cohen, Aral Balkan, and Dr. Chris Gilliard.
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Chris Gilliard at Congress "Chris Gilliard at Congress"	0:20:12 (Pop-up)
	Aral Balkan in Brussels "Aral Balkan in Brussels"	0:25:45 (Pop-up)
	Sacha Baron Cohen at ADL "Sacha Baron Cohen at ADL"	0:35:11 (Pop-up)
	Deepfake Roundtable from Collider "Deepfake Roundtable from Collider"	0:50:58 (Pop-up)
	Your comments "Your comments"	0:52:10 (Pop-up)
Jona Lewie	Heart of Steel "Heart of Steel" by "Jona Lewie"	0:56:08 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Hello Mark! Techsparent Metallitons!
	6:00pm queems: hi mark & all
	6:01pm queems: i watched that whole sacha baron cohen speech; it was fantastic
	🤖 6:01pm Webhamster Henry: Are You A Robot? Please click on all the surveillance cameras!
	6:01pm ultradamno: Hey kids, let's all go huck pinballs at ol' Mr. Musk's ugly new truck!
	6:01pm geezerette: Wow!
	🤖 6:02pm Webhamster Henry: I like that brutalist Tesla truck! I think you can stack them easily.
	6:02pm Dave Miss: Howdy from BK! TB Lee w new decentralized interwebs!
	6:02pm melinda: Hi group
	6:02pm listener james from westwood: Evening, Mark and all!
	6:03pm tak: Ali G was incredibly on point. I'm sure he's a listener
	🤖 6:03pm Ken From Hyde Park: Watch your necks, Techturkeys!
	🤖 6:04pm Handy Haversack: Hi, all.
	🤖 6:05pm Webhamster Henry: It's good to take a week off from interviews!
	🤖 6:06pm chresti: Hi Mark and Technotic
	🤖 6:07pm Ken From Hyde Park: It's also the start of the season of insipid ads showing muppets hawking those stupid spy camera picture phone devices.
	6:08pm ultradamno: It play off this www.forbes.com...
	🤖 6:10pm Bas NL: Mark! All!
	🤖 6:10pm Folsom: Since Mark is posting funny Yoda pics, here is another imgur.com...
	6:10pm listener james from westwood: Let's not mince words: Swatting is done to get the victims killed.
	6:11pm jp: Just a comment, people have died from being swatted, not just a method of harassment.
	6:11pm geezerette: Musk is on the road to Phil Spectorism.
	6:11pm mariano: Jesus, Tesla is vile. They swatted one of their own former employees? I thought it was bad enough when Musk called that English guy in Thailand a "pedo guy". What an affront to the name of Nikola Tesla.
	6:12pm geezerette: Musk is nuts.
	6:12pm ultradamno: "Yup. Sledgehammer impact on door cracked base of glass, which is why steel ball didn’t bounce off. Should have done steel ball on window, then sledgehammer the door. Next time …" - Musk Does that make it any more successful? www.cnet.com...
	6:12pm Sam: Can they prove Tesla swatted him? If so, they’re done, that’s seriously seriously illegal. The whistle blower might be in for a sweet settlement.
	6:12pm queems: can elon musk just stop
	🤖 6:13pm Handy Haversack: @listener James: Yup. It's targeted assassination dice.
	6:13pm geezerette: queems, fist bump.
	6:14pm queems: @geezerette i want to fist bump elon musk in the nose
	6:15pm ultradamno: www.theonion.com...
	6:15pm Bob a: Well I better start wearing pants in the backyard.
	6:15pm geezerette: total agreement,queems.
	6:16pm David: Just opt out of the idiocy and don't buy anything from Amazon.
	6:17pm Sam: Reading people’s lame Facebook posts is a human rights abuse in itself.
	6:18pm geezerette: Let's start with Uber's name. Not hiding intentions.
	6:19pm queems: i don't use uber for a lot of reasons, so just add this to the list
	6:20pm geezerette: Cognitive dissonance is the new sanity.
	6:20pm Sam: You need the recordings for protection in case the unscreened, untrained driver assaults you. All part of the business model.
	6:21pm geezerette: We're in trouble.
	🤖 6:22pm Bas NL: No, no! We care for the safety of your money!
	6:24pm geezerette: Ha! Bas...:)
	6:26pm Sam: Tech companies + Trump = the end of civilization
	🤖 6:27pm Bas NL: Hi geezerette!
	6:30pm geezerette: "innovation" Tyranny is as old as people.
	6:30pm china defender, swag4life: whoa this guy sounds like narduwaar
	6:31pm ignatatus666: People farming Because people are Sheeple or Cows to be herded
	🤖 6:32pm chresti: I suppose all those satellites can surveille us as well..
	6:32pm geezerette: Hey,Chresti!
	🤖 6:33pm chresti: Hi geez!
	6:34pm tak: just a bunch of weird toolbars way back then
	6:35pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: So - it's so much worse than Monopolies like the 19th Century Robber Barons & Wealth Inequality... It's the end of the Bill of Rights - of Privacy - of Identity itself...
	6:38pm ultradamno: Is Roy Moore still suing him for the Who Is America interview?
	6:39pm Sam: This would be so much better in the Borat voice.
	6:40pm queems: i can't pay attention to anything but i watched this whole speech
	6:41pm Bob a: Cut Musk some slack. Tesla’s the only entity making a concerted effort to put electric cars on the road.
	6:42pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: & Hitler made trains run on time...
	🤖 6:43pm Folsom: @Bob also we should just cut Musk some slack about "pedo man"! Just a joke!
	6:43pm geezerette: Mark, this show is necessary.
	6:43pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, geezerette!
	6:45pm geezerette: Baron Cohen for Parliament!!! Or Senator...
	6:45pm melinda: Social media platforms like Facebook are too big to effectively and fairly restrict speech.
	6:46pm coelacanth∅: greetings Mark
	6:46pm Mark Hurst: Hi coel!
	6:47pm ignatatus666: He won’t touch the racism that is Zionism I wonder why?
	6:47pm Sam: I don’t know if I agree. The internet also allows us to get access to real true facts like never before. You can look up a statistic or fact on Wikipedia in seconds. And it’s harder to hide atrocities. Everyone sees what’s happening in Hong Kong. It would’ve been much harder to ship people off to death camps and keep them secret if there were ubiquitous cell phone cameras in WWII.
	6:47pm SheWolf: I agree, Melinda. There's nothing wrong with what he's saying of course. It's just unworkable.
	6:49pm melinda: I agree they should somehow be held responsible for a faulty product though.
	6:50pm tak: ignat he mentions it yes. He's not commenting on racist actions, he's making a speech of the facilitation of such by these big tech guys
	6:50pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: @Sam : But the Internet is corralled thru these few Companies.
	6:50pm brainiac: Guess it's pointless to SWAT the Zuckster
	6:51pm queems: do not pass go
	🤖 6:51pm chresti: They have to hire flaggers or editors, for starters, the facebergs
	6:51pm coelacanth∅: this man seems to be missing something...the fact that the us government is essentially one of these corporations.
	🤖 6:52pm Handy Haversack: These companies have no a priori reason or right to exist. If we assert that their practices are harmful and regulate them and the companies don't comply, then they face the penalties. Why should we once again let the capitalists make all the rules? Prosecute, penalize, and hope they collapse under the weight of their own greed once the jail sentences come.
	6:52pm geezerette: Thanks again, Mark! Happy holiday,all!
	6:53pm brainiac: @Handy excellent post. Agree wholeheartedly
	6:53pm ignatatus666: Boy I miss MySpace we didn’t have these issues
	🤖 6:54pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	6:54pm ultradamno: FX news magazine show The Weekly was about deep fakes this week.
	6:55pm tak: the whole thing is almost 30 minutes long. I didn't think he missed out on much to be quite honest. He presents some questionable solutions which is what I think Mark was talking about earlier, but other than that it's all very factual.
	6:55pm melinda: Goldblum sounded fake
	6:56pm Sam: Are the voices fake, by imitators? Or is it their voices from different interviews spliced together?
	6:56pm listener 126464: Thanks Mark
	🤖 6:56pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark!
	6:57pm melinda: Go London
	🤖 6:57pm Handy Haversack: Thanks for the show, Mark. Another necessary hour.
	6:57pm tak: us government could be confused by a corporation if it wasn't for the fact that it is not. you can vote on it. and that is his point, these people weren't elected at all.
	6:57pm coelacanth∅: yay! Fuck uber!
	6:58pm Dave Miss: Thanks Mark
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Don't you dare hit the 'hate' button!
	6:58pm Sam: Why doesn’t every city just rescind Ubrr’s lisence? Problem solved. Why did they allow taxi medallions to plummet in value leading to tons of suicides? I don’t get it.
	7:00pm tak: thanks and amazing pictures btw. top production
	7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	🤖 7:00pm Webhamster Henry: Fake Voices by LyreBird (now part of Descript) www.descript.com...
	7:01pm P-90: Thanks, Mark
	7:03pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark!
	11:14am qolin: Mark! Religious listener in Osaka, Japan. Just wanted to say that the links on deletefacebook all seem to result in "we are down for maintenance, try later" type messages. I deactivated both facebook and instagram a long time ago, but is it really possible to get to a true deletion through deletefacebook? just wondering because (a) you often recommend the site and (b) it's something I'd really like to do. Keep up the great work!
	9:31pm Mark Hurst: Hi qolin, thanks for listening! The deletefacebook.com link seems to work for me... maybe try again to see if it's back up. Anyway, yes, it appears that your FB account would be truly deleted (though Facebook would likely continue to maintain a "shadow dossier" on you after that). I still recommend deleting your FB and Instagram accounts!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 25, 2019

Upcoming events:

Listener comments!

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