WFMU: This Is The Modern World with Trouble: Playlist from February 8, 2018

Listener comments!
	8:42pm Trouble: good morning! The artwork gracing our page today is by Brian Chippendale. He also wrote this article which will be included in the discussion at 10:00 with author david goodwin: thecreativeindependent.com...
	9:01am Dave in Vermont: yay, Trouble! I haven't been here live in a while.
	9:03am Trouble: hola dave!
	9:05am TDK60: Morning Trouble. Still catching my breath after that previous show.
	9:06am CHAD PEARSON: Beautiful piece of artwork in the page today!
	9:06am Sem: Good morning, Trouble, Dave in Vermont, TDK60.
	9:06am Dave in Vermont: hi, Sem
	9:08am Linda Lee: wow .. amazing artwork
	9:08am Linda Lee: good morning!
	9:10am northguineahills: cool, Brian Chippendale from Lightning Bolt!
	9:10am TDK60: A semi dub feel?
	9:11am melinda: hi friends
	9:13am TDK60: Early UB40!
	9:13am Peter in Sea: G'morning Trouble, g'morning troubled listener friends, it's still dark n raining on the west coast....
	9:13am Dave in Vermont: y,know, I discovered The Creative Independent because Blast of Hot Air pointed me to it when Faye did their spiral gif logo. I haven't read it in a while but for several months I was reading it everyday. Another way FMU has made my life better.
	9:15am MD: Good Morning Faithful!
	9:15am sphere: hello hello
	9:16am MD: UB40? It's a long time since I be 40! he he he!!!
	9:20am sphere: the McCraven track reminds me of DC's go-go grooves.
	9:21am Trouble: bob marley was born feb 6 1945
	9:21am TDK60: This album was my intro. to reggae!
	9:22am Lucky: Brian Chippendale's article is really pretty amazing.
	9:24am Linda Lee: Happy Birthday Robert Nesta Marley Feb 9. Rest in power.
	9:25am Linda Lee: whoa posting too soon after waking!
	9:25am Dave in Vermont: N.E.S.T.A. by Antibalas is my alarm.
	9:26am adampsyche: ok waking up to the tail end of clay's show and now this i think i'll work from home for quite a bit, lovely set trouble.
	9:27am exile-on-hicks-street: Good morning, @Trouble!
	9:30am Planet Tyler: Good morning Trouble and birds!
	9:32am listener james from westwood: College dinguses overplaying Marley in particular put me off of reggae for way too long. One of these guys, however, actually played Eek-a-Mouse now and again, which exposure served me well years later when I encountered Reggae Schoolroom for the first time.
	9:32am TDK60: Frat boy culture did the same with The Doors in the '80s. // My town's reggae scene was fun -- a mix of hippies and punx.
	9:36am queems: isn’t that the struggle. sigh
	9:36am northguineahills: Bob's cancer started from an injury on his toe he received on an impromptu pickup football/soccer match in Central Park during a NYC stop on a tour.
	9:37am Fernando P.: Marrom!!!!!!
	9:38am listener james from westwood: That my college (Boston College) actually had a fairly decent radio station was a huge relief when the dorm hallways were reverberating with amped replays of the Doors and the same five Grateful Dead tunes on repeat. That and WFNX were how I rolled, with the odd Columbia House binge.
	9:38am Brian C.: IMO, there's a big difference in overplaying both Doors and Wailers. Doors, um, how to put it. Suck?
	9:41am Fernando P.: I know that may be considered inappropriate by nowadays standards, but marrom is how Alcione is known in Brazil.
	9:42am JakeGould: 192 Books is a nice place and sea birds are—generally—good birds. www.192books.com...
	9:43am Fernando P.: Alcione & Axl BFF! goo.gl...
	9:43am JakeGould: To be honest, I favor sparrows nowadays.
	9:43am JakeGould: @TDK60: Fat bot culture made liking “Animal House” and “The Blues Brothers” hard at best.
	9:44am JakeGould: I like those two movies as well as sparrows.
	9:44am TDK60: Don't think the Doors such but it doesn't matter.
	9:44am Brian C.: Whoa, thanks for playing Bunny! Love Dreamland. Saw him play live in NYC c 2002? Would love to see him again
	9:45am TDK60: "suck"
	9:45am sphere: Someone in high school gave me a tape of '60s Atlantic R&B tunes (including Stax-Volt), so watching The Blues Brothers in college had its own magic resonance.
	9:49am emily: good morning, trouble!
	9:49am D. Lightfoot: Hello all. I'm just here for the soft fascination.
	9:49am mb: Good morning all. Listening from home and enjoying!
	9:49am melinda: I understand that the Doors were overplayed but they weren't ruined for me somehow. @Jake I saw Animal House in grade school and thought it was hilarious, but my feelings toward it became more complicated later. Some of it is still great.
	9:50am Brian C.: Doors fans… www.youtube.com...
	9:50am Barney Grubbs: @fernando, coincidentally, Axl shares a birthday with Bob Marley (and Ronald Reagan, Babe Ruth, Aaron Burr, Thurl Ravenscroft, Zsa Zsa Gabor, Rick Astley, and me)
	9:52am TDK60: I did have some uncomfortable encounters with frats in the '80s.
	9:55am sphere: My college was essentially Slacker U. The frat/soro community was so outnumbered that members would start almost every conversation with "fraternities/sororities aren't so bad!"
	9:55am Linda Lee: never had use for frats & thankfully no opportunity to worry about it.
	9:56am drr: also Doors fans: www.youtube.com...
	9:58am Linda Lee: traveling beyond the comfort zone is always a problem for the pioneers. I remember when people outside the area wouldn't come to Soho. then they wouldn't come to the LES. then they wouldn't come to Wiliamsburg.
	9:59am Linda Lee: same old same old. once pioneers prove an area 'marketable' by their presence, forces come to bear to get them out. same old forever.
	10:00am Linda Lee: those are white pioneers, of course.
	10:00am TDK60: Real estate moguls? Sounds familiar.
	10:01am Linda Lee: Trouble is right.
	10:02am melinda: Good point Trouble. Sometimes the trade-off isn't worth it.
	10:03am Linda Lee: y'know, space in the metro area is perennially at such an absolute premium that it always turns out to be worth it, in my experience. we'll put up with just about anything, until it's literally not possible any more.
	10:04am JakeGould: @Trouble: So happy you brought up the silly romanticization of squalor. I grew up in a crappy building and crappy neighborhood and when I became an adult it was hard for me to understand why someone would willfully place themselves in such conditions. Granted, I regret some aspects of avoiding the crappy neighborhoods in NYC back in the 1980s, but still.
	10:04am Ike: "How many people actually relish that environment?" "Some do, probably...." Not many, but a good chunk of those few are at WFMU, LOL. When volunteering over the years I've heard plenty of people pining for the sleazy gross old Times Square of yore. Ew. ;P
	10:07am JakeGould: @Ike: I generally think people who romanticize sleaze to that level really have the choice of being or not being there. Meaning they are “slumming” it. There is some level of freedom to chaotic environments like that, but if you have no choice but to live there that is not really the same thing.
	10:07am D. Lightfoot: Harris Teeter: gentrify your groceries
	10:07am geegee vindaloo: Good interview. It's interesting how this story matches what was going on in Boston at this time. We were in the Fort Point neighborhood in South Boston. For artists in our 20s, this was so exciting, having affordable raw space to create. In the mid 90s we went through the painful negotiation process , losing out in the ned.
	10:08am queems: this is fascinating to me and it hits close to home
	10:09am Linda Lee: @Ike ~ i think it's just a matter of interesting aesthetically vs not interesting. accessible to a sensibility vs not accessible. the authentic vs inauthentic. the fact that unsavory exposes something of human nature that gentrification serves to obscure. i grew up in 60s nyc & there was no doubt times square was interesting! day-to-day living as education was of incredible value to me as a person. just saying. sometimes nostalgia is more than a pose. if you weren't there though .. that's funny.
	10:10am Lewis: this conversation is not helping me get my presentation ready for my 10 o'clock!...
	10:10am melinda: Me too queems.
	10:10am D. Lightfoot: I'm trying to quasi-gentrify a town of 160 people in the middle of nowhere (I am an artist whose medium is living)
	10:10am Mikeee: Upstate NY towns Hudson, Kingston, Beacon once affordable to artists, have increased to luxury standard pricing. WTF
	10:11am Linda Lee: blaming the artists for gentrification! talk about blaming the victim! it's practically a national sport.
	10:11am northguineahills: The goal is to bring the benefits that gentrification can bring to a neighborhood, rather then replacing the neighborhood.
	10:12am queems: i left the city last year for the suburbs so i could maybe afford to make art part time when i’m not at my sad job
	10:12am SSS: Very complex subject. Just don't forget that the MOB and drug infusion into a neighborhood is often involved in gentrification. East Village in particular.
	10:13am drr: New Orleans (where I live) used to be attractive because of cheap rent, but AirBnB and overexposure have ended that fun era. It's now an expensive place to live with all the same problems it had before.
	10:13am northguineahills: (the goal should be)
	10:13am SSS: These moves by the MOB happen in a planned way over several decades.
	10:15am Linda Lee: yes, hudson valley is definitely changing as people in need of space are thrown far afield from home. but you do have a train line back to the mother. @SSS ~ that's right. my grandparents landed in JC as well, in the early 20s. a shame they didn't want to own property there, though they were offered properties many times.
	10:16am Linda Lee: think the word is provincialism ..
	10:16am JakeGould: Oh man, the politics of DUMBO and the people who own those buildings is amazing. The city did not want them to do what they have done. The city wanted to tear down all of those buildings. What it is now is really hypergentrified, but I will say this: That neighborhood still feels welcoming in its own way.
	10:17am PJ: There are no longer any working artists in DUMBO (or at least I haven't seen any in at least five years, and everyone I knew who worked or lived there was forced out by the Walentis family). So, yes, St. Ann's is there, and there is the very nice Brooklyn Bridge park, but these are just amenities for the wealthy people living in their new luxury condos.
	10:17am BronwynB: the conversations about gentrification and the old days of nyc (including at fmu) sometimes frustrate me because a) as a Youth(ish) im tired of hearing that the NYC i always dreamed of living in and finally made it to sucks now because it's not weird or cool enough and I'll never experience the tru magic of Old Weird Dirty Sleazy New York blah blah blah and b) as someone who grew up poor and has lived in very bad neighborhoods, it's not glamorous when you don't have a choice. it can be very interesting but also very scary and sad. gentrification is a scourge because it pushes poor people (mostly POC) out of their homes, not because it makes things less ~cool~
	10:18am Greg from ZONE 5: Morning, gang!
	10:18am βrian: Horace Greeley's imperative still holds: Go west!
	10:18am PJ: @JakeGould - Dumbo is welcoming for tourists and tech bros these days, not so much for regular people, and definitely not for artists.
	10:18am Linda Lee: & this is why people value a sense of the authentic & therefore have nostalgia for the authentic. because much of what we value aesthetically is turning to window dressing for wealth.
	10:18am steveo: great talk -- thanks!
	10:19am queems: @bronwyn well said
	10:20am BronwynB: thanks queems :)
	10:20am Linda Lee: BronwynB ~ ignore nostalgia. don't let it bug you. the idea is, make your own fantastic weird when & where you can. that's what we do.
	10:20am ⓘⓚⓔ: @Linda@10:09, fair enough! "That unsavory exposes something of human nature that gentrification serves to obscure"... hmm, interesting!
	10:21am JakeGould: @PJ: Well, not as a renter or owner, right. But just being in the neighborhood gives an outsider something to do. The tech dude bros and all that stuff are annoying. But that kind of hypergentrification is utterly everywhere nowadays. Some places are just more exclusionary about it.
	10:21am TDK60: I'm struggling to understand David's main conclusion.
	10:23am Linda Lee: oh yeah. definitely. & even if we have no choice but to live in rough neighborhoods ~ as i have, as Bronwyn has ~ we benefit from that awareness of human nature. no use denying that or resenting it. then we do what we can with it depending on our character.
	10:23am glenn: most people who are nostalgic for something have never lived through what they're nostalgic for.
	10:23am BronwynB: @Linda: that's my plan. people tell me i missed out on the weird artistic times but im just trying to make my own doing weird theatre and starting a group for occult studies, etc.
	10:23am Priscilla: This is so interesting!
	10:24am melinda: @glenn not necessarily.
	10:24am queems: i mean part of the problem is society’s view on art and artists. it’s disposable unless it can be used to make money or enrich the lives of wealthy people
	10:25am Linda Lee: @rBronwynB ~ there you go! brava!!! back in the day in nyc we didn't think wow, wish this was the 1940s! (though that was a truly fantastic time in nyc). we just got on with it.
	10:25am βrian: @glenn: The 60s were awesome, right?
	10:26am Passaic River Blues: I often think people's reductive criticisms of gentrification fail to realize their problem isn’t so much with gentrification as an isolated trend as it is with late capitalism generally and its attendant exploitative racism as its most useful lever. Gentrification is merely the “upswing” phase of the endless cycle of capital harvesting maximum value from real property; redlining, block-busting, and impoverishment is the “downswing” phase. Money is made at each step. The particular dynamics at any given moment for each neighborhood are individual and specific and, of course, there are unthinking market forces at work, but there are also larger structural issues always churning away.
	10:26am Linda Lee: queems ~ forutnately or unfortunately, the creative drive exists regardless of what happens to art.
	10:26am sphere: To me, every decade is awesome if you look at it in the right way.
	10:26am BronwynB: nice linda, i like that analogy. although my mom does say that growing up in the 70s she sometimes felt like she missed out on the 30s and 40s (her favorite era of music) :D
	10:26am JakeGould: Slight detour, but in NYC attempts at “affordable” housing are a joke. The city gives tax incentives to developers. That sounds good right? A lot of “affordable” places are seriously going for $2,000 to $3,000 a month. And if you want those magical $500 a month apartments in some developments? Your max income must be $30,000 or so a year. What the fuck?!?!
	10:26am glenn: so they tell me. i was too busy trying to get through grade school.
	10:26am Linda Lee: see? :-D
	10:26am PJ: @JakeGould - You're right, it could certainly be worse. I worked in the JC waterfront area for a while, and there was really nothing to do there. It was hard to even find a decent spot to eat lunch.
	10:27am queems: @linda true
	10:27am JakeGould: @PJ: Food trucks are the diners of the 21st Century.
	10:27am βrian: Everything started going downhill when people stopped writing in cursive, damn it.
	10:28am northguineahills: PRB: My Master's thesis involved the history and spatial analysis and modeling gentrification, and you're spot on (that was 15 years ago).
	10:28am melinda: @Linda regarding artists being blamed for gentrification, I think it's understandable in a way since everyone knows they are the first step in that direction, but it's like the critics and protesters are going after soft targets rather than focusing higher up or on larger systems at work.
	10:28am ⓘⓚⓔ: @glenn, great point -- or in many cases they're just nostalgic for being young, and the rest of the stuff was much more incidental than they realize.
	10:28am northguineahills: errr.. modeling of gentrification
	10:28am JakeGould: @brian: I want to relearn cursive.
	10:28am Linda Lee: @Passaic River Blues ~ dead on. correct. of course.
	10:29am Linda Lee: @melinda ~ darn right.
	10:29am melinda: @PRB well stated.
	10:29am queems: this is so interesting that i’m not getting any work done
	10:29am TDK60: We need affordable housing for everyone -- the poor, the working class, and artists. But, we don't have it.
	10:30am sphere: Let the Re-Rebirth of Calligraphy begin!
	10:30am Linda Lee: don't know why you wouldn't be nostalgic for a time when your art was first, making a living second. how is that not lovely? the point is that it doesn't matter.
	10:31am βrian: Correction to an earlier statement: There is a $10 yearly fee to keep chickens in Madison, WI.
	10:31am JakeGould: Not calligraphy. Cursive.
	10:32am queems: smith st is a ghost town these days
	10:32am queems: lots of turnover in recent years
	10:32am JakeGould: Yeah, but Smith Street is now hypergentrified. Not a fun place anymore.
	10:33am PJ: @PRB - there's a good book that came out last year, Fear City, about how Republicans and developers used NYC's fiscal crisis in the 70s as leverage to break unions and sell public property at bargain basement prices to developers (including Trump!) along with massive tax breaks, which they then sell or lease as luxury housing.
	10:33am northguineahills: I remember when I wouldn't walk Bushwick (heck parts of Williamsburg) alone, and then I moved to Bushwick.
	10:34am Passaic River Blues: @PJ: ooh, that book sounds good to me. Thank you for the tip.
	10:34am northguineahills: (and back then, I lived in Bed-Stuy, i got jumped many times there)
	10:35am PJ: Smith Street is a ghost town because the landlords all want Sephora/Chase Bank money for their storefronts, which most Mom and Pops can't afford.
	10:35am Webhamster Henry: There's some concern about gentrification here in Kingston, NY. Kingston has primarily three parts: Uptown, Midtown, and the Rondout. While the cityencouraging artists and other creatives to colonize Midtown, Uptown is getting some boutique hotels and the rents are rising, kind of removing the low-margin stores that are the main attraction. Again, the tax abatements go to the new rich developers, not the existing mom & pops.
	10:35am JakeGould: @northguineahills: In the later 1980s I remember going to Williamsburg. Was in the train. Just me and some guy on the L train. While in the tunnel he pulls out a butterfly knife and is playing with it right in front of me. Then I get to Lorimer Street and get out and it’s immediately urban squalor and crap. At least I didn’t pay $5 for a cookie back then.
	10:36am queems: @pj ding ding ding
	10:37am JakeGould: @PJ: Smith Street went from urban blight in the 1980s to high rent blight in the 21st century/
	10:37am queems: nyc affordable housing is a joke
	10:38am northguineahills: @Jake: I remember going to a party at friend's warehouse off the Bedford stop in 2001, and at 10pm is was deserted, and spooky. By 2003 in was a whole new ball game.
	10:38am Linda Lee: @Webhamster Henry ~ was in Kingston last this fall (i'm about an hour southwest) visiting friends working there. we were in Midtown. still seemed like a happy secret, but the bloom's fading from the rose for sure.
	10:39am PJ: DG, right on, I don't understand why abatements and PILOTs are necessary when we are talking about the most valuable property on the East Coast. These developers will build under whatever conditions you prescribe, so why not demand 50% actual affordable housing, and artspace, and whatever else we want as a community?
	10:39am JakeGould: @northguineahills: Yeah, 2001 to 2007 was still rough. Now it’s an outdoor mall.
	10:40am Linda Lee: @Jake ~ 2 little white girls from the East Village moved to south williamsburg in 85 & believe it or not, our neighborhood was nothing but welcoming & friendly. dope wasn't a big thing there yet. that took a few years. & then of course came the robberies & so on.
	10:40am steveo: Kimzilla & Emily did a show on the Loew's JC which I have not listened to yet but which is probably excellent wfmu.org...
	10:41am steveo: i have really enjoyed hearing this talk -- thanks for for coming in, David, and thanks for hosting, Trouble (I used to work in Jersey City in the early 00's)
	10:42am queems: that was great, thanks!
	10:43am Linda Lee: i lived in JC with my grandparents for the whole of the 60s. haven't been there since their deaths in the 80s. i should drop in & see what's what! :-)
	10:43am TDK60: David's thesis is available as a PDF: 111 1st Street Jersey City, NJ: The Life and Death of an Arts Community.
	10:43am Webhamster Henry: @Linda Lee : We in Kingston have a consciousness of the economic and social danger. The city got a grant of $10M to fix up uptown, but a lot is going toward kind of upscale-y incentives rather than infrastructure improvements.
	10:44am JakeGould: @LindaLee: Yeah, the mid 1980s is when NYC really started to slide. Even my neighborhood in Brooklyn was crappy but there was community and our landlord was nice. Then he sold the building and it fell to crap and our neighborhood became known more and more as the place you could score good cheap heroin in. What’s not to like?
	10:44am Webhamster Henry: Thanks, Trouble, for a little Talk Radio! You should take over for Lopate!
	10:45am melinda: @Henry yes!
	10:45am Barney Grubbs: That science/art comparison from the Chippendale piece made me happy (& depressed at the same time)
	10:46am PJ: The whole Exchange Place area in JC is a real missed opportunity, miles of waterfront property with just glass office towers and condos. But this is how most development and re-development is in the US since the 70s, mediocre buildings and few amenities and why on earth would anyone want to spend time there?
	10:46am Itzall Ablurr: Dear TDK60, thanks for the info. I really want to get his book and will most definitely read this work as well.
	10:46am Linda Lee: @Webhamster Henry ~ jeez .. feeders at the trough taking their tithe. @JakeGould ~ it's basically a given that viable communities are almost always purposely driven to shit for the benefit of the controllers. we wrongly blame the community, as if its intrinsic weakness forced its destruction. but bombing is bombing.
	10:46am stu: Hi Trouble from cool and crispy Finland.
	10:47am Itzall Ablurr: And of course, thank you, Trouble for the great show this morning.
	10:48am Linda Lee: @Webmaster Henry ~ problem is the distribution of resources, seems like. who decides where the money goes..
	10:48am Dean: The book is also on Muse for those who have access to its contents: https://muse.jhu.edu/book/53037/
	10:49am Linda Lee: of course i fucked up your name. sorry.
	10:49am PJ: Trouble, I second the call for you to have your own talk radio show. Thanks for the thought-provoking and anger-generating conversation with DG, as always for the great music.
	10:52am TDK60: That's a good idea -- an additional Trouble talk show. It would be very unusual in that the discussion would be thought provoking.
	10:52am PJ: I also think that part of the problem is that in smaller and poorer communities, politicians have little experience in dealing with the amounts of money that developers throw around and are just happy that anything is happening rather than blight, so that they miss out on the things that could really benefit the community if the redevelopment were done more intelligently.
	10:53am TDK60: Is Station Mgr. Ken reading the comments? Or shall we direct his attention?
	10:55am Linda Lee: no word yet from Trouble on the idea .. :-)
	10:56am Passaic River Blues: @WH, PJ & TDK60: a Trouble talk show built around a probing interview of an author on an interesting subject? YES.
	10:58am βrian: Mais enfin ! Les oiseaux !
	10:58am PJ: Re the talk show, assuming, of course, that Trouble would want to do it, even if time elsewhere is unavailable, maybe an hour of the current show could be set aside for these kinds of conversations. Even though I would miss that hour of music, there are so few places to hear these kind of discussions (that I am aware of.)
	11:01am JakeGould: FWIW, Jersey City is really nice. But the whole finance district—offices and condos for workers—is kinda insane. It’s like an office park by the shore. At least the NYC financial district has some life.
	11:01am βrian: Jersey Garden is a euphemism for shopping mall?
	11:02am Dean: It is her third, if you don't count the remix album by Prince Fatty.
	11:03am Dean: "Presents Hollie Cook in Dub"...nice.
	11:03am Passaic River Blues: @Brian: The Jersey Gardens is an actual mall in Elizabeth, near Newark Airport. It's cursed ground I am forced to visit a few times a year. (I did see "Bridesmaids" there--that was nice.)
	11:04am Trouble: hey guys! i was saying goodbye to my guest so i couldnt read comments. thanks for all your good words. i do miss leonard lopate's interviews.
	11:04am βrian: Wow. Stranger than fiction.
	11:05am Ken From Hyde Park: Very nice work today, Trouble!
	11:05am queems: jersey gardens is an experience, i will say that
	11:06am βrian: Garden state makes more sense now.
	11:09am ⓔⓘⓚ: Jersey Gardens is just about the least garden-like place in existence, and kind of depressing even as malls go. You should be cursed to have ivy grow all over your body if you name something "[Whatever] Gardens" and there are no actual gardens there!
	11:09am Dean: Madison Square?
	11:12am βrian: Olive?
	11:12am βrian: Beer?
	11:12am Priscilla: Dancing on my desk
	11:13am slowbear: this is making my commute effing amazing thank you
	11:13am glenn: trump gardens. where bullshit flourishes.
	11:13am Linda Lee: hey girl! love it!
	11:13am Dean: Madison Square Olive Beer...has a nice ring...
	11:13am Itzall Ablurr: Priscilla: SAME here!
	11:14am TDK60: WFMU's little building is old and quaint compared to the glass offices surrounding. Well, WFMU is next to the old Post Office building, still running.
	11:16am Kate from NYC and more recently SF: Not listening right now but just saw this. Did you know about this? https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/cdc-chickens-backyard-salmonella-kissing-cuddling
	11:18am Trouble: thanks kate! we do not cuddle our chickens: they wouldn't stand for it!
	11:18am queems: yikes
	11:20am JakeGould: I miss malls. Discovered this great article from 2013 talking about how “Fast Times at Ridgemont High” and “Valley Girl” are time capsules of a world of retail that doesn’t exist anymore. www.kcet.org...
	11:20am drr: Thanks for the good interview, that was like a personally relevant On Point.
	11:22am r i s k y: Hi trubzzzz - keep em rockin!!
	11:23am steveo: i should buy this album (and a record player)
	11:23am steveo: oh, and a bigger apartment (see real estate discussion)
	11:24am Linda Lee: those disco strings helped mitigate new york filth, children. :-D
	11:25am Dean: I, too, have a soft spot for malls, so long as I don't think for too long about the inherent racism that spawned the suburbia that was formative for me. When I would hie to Victoriaville for the festival I'd kill time in the morning having coffee at the mall. It was a comfortable familiar site, for all intents and purposes identical to the ones I knew from Southern California, except all of the signage was in French.
	11:25am SG: This set is really warming up this corner of NH!
	11:26am Linda Lee: same for the snowy catskills, SG!
	11:27am exile-on-hicks-street: That electric piano riff sounds familiar...
	11:28am queems: i’ve got a question for trouble/any local fiber people out there- does anyone know of any places in north jersey that offer yarn spinning classes? my internet searches have brought up a lot of outdates lists and dead links. thanks in advance!
	11:29am βrian: Never cared much for malls. I always tried to get in and out as fast as possible. And the air had a strange soul-dessicating effect.
	11:30am melinda: My favorite mall from childhood was converted into a community college campus. I loved the mall back then but don't miss it.
	11:31am βrian: Are malls likely places to be converted to arts hubs? Or is their location and layout just too peculiar?
	11:32am melinda: Brian I wonder about that too. I think it could happen with the right mall and location.
	11:33am TDK60: Always hated malls. Wasn't Paramus, NJ's the first? // Love Juana Molina by the way.
	11:34am exile-on-hicks-street: The Newburgh Mall (does that exist?) and the Orange Plaza mall both had excellent video arcades. It is not unusual for imagined versions of these malls to be sets/locations for my dreams.
	11:36am Trouble: @queems check out white barn farm in new paltz, she might teach spinning or know of someone. it's an easy drive and gorgeous!
	11:37am Dean: "A place of curiosity, ritual, and fantasy..." https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/shopping-mall-9781501314827/ That's probably overstating the effect.
	11:38am melinda: Thinking of malls reminds me of food trends that have passed, like potato-focused fast-food restaurants with silly names. When I was a kid one of my favorite mall joints was Tater Junction, and the mall in my college town had a Super Spud. Then again, maybe there still are potato restaurants I'm missing because I avoid malls now.
	11:38am Linda Lee: my gosh i cannot wait for summer in these mountains. brrrrrrr :-)
	11:38am Linda Lee: Trouble, this set is just delicious. absolutely delicious. thank you.
	11:39am queems: @trouble thanks!! i used to climb rocks in new paltz! agreed, it is lovely up there. i will definitely check it out!
	11:40am Linda Lee: i've always found malls disorienting. no sense of natural light .. which is how i find myself in space :-D
	11:40am Dean: Southdale Center in MN, "oldest fully enclosed shopping mall in the country," though Valley Fair Shopping Center in Appleton, WI, was earlier, but hosted only six stores.
	11:40am Trouble: obrigado @ linda lee
	11:40am steveo: It's cold down here too, Linda :) & I am also loving this set
	11:41am Dean: Southdale opened in October 1956.
	11:41am Linda Lee: where are you steveo? sorry, i forget! getting on you know
	11:41am melinda: @Linda yeah, no natural light is bad. Though some have skylights.
	11:42am Ken From Hyde Park: Dead malls in New Jersey: www.deadmalls.com...
	11:42am Warwick joe: Great show, from the interview to the music to the dj banter.
	11:43am Linda Lee: @melinda ~ true! but somehow it doesn't help. like a prison window i guess .. what i need is landscape & the relative position of the sun.
	11:43am glenn: that's a lot of dead malls.
	11:44am TDK60: I suppose we don't need another Trouble talk show, if she can easily do that here in-between the music. Maybe a bit more often?
	11:44am steveo: sorry, Linda; you can't read my mind?; live in Brooklyn work in Hell's Kitchen
	11:45am Linda Lee: ah! where are you in Brooklyn? even after all that's happened .. love Brooklyn. moving from manhattan in '81 was such a revelation. sky!!! :-)
	11:46am Linda Lee: speaking of art spaces .. dead malls.
	11:47am JakeGould: Early goodbye but still listening because work. THANKS TROUBLE!!!
	11:47am Linda Lee: wow look at all the dead hudson valley malls ~ & here come the artists looking for space to live & work! hello??
	11:48am exile-on-hicks-street: Same - @Trouble-Great show today.
	11:48am common: purdy
	11:48am Priscilla: I could go for Tater Junction about now...
	11:49am Leelee: Ahhh love this Os Mutantes... so dreamy
	11:49am exile-on-hicks-street: Aw, man.... Now you play Os Mutantes? :)
	11:49am steveo: Linda, i live near Grand Army Plaza. my not-yet-wife dragged me out there from the east village in the 00s. we think about moving upstate but... jobs
	11:49am Webhamster Henry: @Linda Lee - The Hudson Valley Mall is definitely dying out - and even if they were to convert it to housing, there's lousy bus service there!
	11:52am Trouble: obrigado! thanks for sitting in today and all your fab comments!
	11:54am TDK60: Believe it or not, lots of Brazilian tourists come to NYC in the winter.
	11:55am βrian: Coming up: Underwater Theme Park with Meghan wfmu.org...
	11:56am Linda Lee: @steveo ~ nice neighborhood for sure. & you're not the only ones thinking about relocating! here's the funny thing .. the more folks come .. the more jobs created to serve. i believe that's how it goes. the trick is, don't pick up a city-income mortgage!! that's the mistake people make.
	11:57am Linda Lee: @Webhamster Henry ~ opportunity for creating citizen bus service! :-)
	11:58am Linda Lee: @TDK60 - shopping opportunities in the off-season?
	11:59am TDK60: Cheaper flights? Too see winter weather? I know not.
	12:00pm Linda Lee: just you wait .. co-housing community is coming. this is how we transform dead spaces & areas affordably. the nuclear family is over. it's just a matter of time.
	12:00pm TDK60: "to"
	12:00pm steveo: i wonder about providence, which Trouble mentioned earlier; seem like a nice place... Thanks for the show, DJ Trouble!
	12:00pm Passaic River Blues: Thank you, Trouble!

This Is The Modern World with Trouble: Playlist from February 8, 2018

View Trouble's profile

A viking ship appears on the horizon, a likeness of Alice Coltrane carved into its bow. Rare birds flock together to sing Francoise Hardy as soul hits. A sunset of blips and bleeps fills the air.

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February 8, 2018: the paradox of life affirming death traps

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

(* = new)

Artist	Track	Album	Label	Format	Comments	New	Approx. start time
loke rahbek & frederik valentin	a woman without	buy corals online	editions mego	Vinyl		*	0:00:00 (Pop-up)
tough solar	transcripts "transcripts" by "tough solar"	a/b	sweet pea	Vinyl		*	0:05:33 (Pop-up)
UB40	i think it's going to rain today	signing off	graduate records				0:12:51 (Pop-up)
makaya McCraven	above & beyond "above & beyond" by "makaya McCraven"	highly rare	International Anthem	Vinyl		*	0:16:02 (Pop-up)
bob marley	Rebel Music ( 3 o' Clock Road Block)	'natty dread'	tuff gong				0:20:01 (Pop-up)
bob marley & the wailers	kaya (version)	african herbsman	trojan				0:25:59 (Pop-up)

alcione	sufoco "sufoco" by "alcione"	o samba	luaka bop				0:36:28 (Pop-up)
bob marley and the wailers	love light ( version ) dreamland (version	jungle dub	D.A.D International licensing Ltd				0:40:33 (Pop-up)
hal	will the world allow it "will the world allow it" by "hal"	Starry Nights in Western Sahara	rounder				0:46:32 (Pop-up)
olivia wyatt/mursi tribe	mursi song	staring into the sun	sublime frequencies				0:49:11 (Pop-up)
Music behind DJ: author david goodwin	interview "interview" by "author david goodwin"				talking about his book is "Left bank of the Hudson" Jersey City and the artists of 111 1st street		0:55:56 (Pop-up)
os brazoes	modulo lunar "modulo lunar" by "os brazoes"	os brazoes	mr bongo				1:41:40 (Pop-up)
o terco	Longe Sem Direcao "Longe Sem Direcao" by "o terco"	o terco	forma				1:48:32 (Pop-up)
marcio greyck	beija-me-agora "beija-me-agora" by "marcio greyck"	marcio greyck	polydor				1:48:56 (Pop-up)
piri	porta do sol "porta do sol" by "piri"	voces querem mate?	quartem				1:51:21 (Pop-up)
karma	cara & coroa "cara & coroa" by "karma"	karma	rca				1:52:12 (Pop-up)

hollie cook	angel fire "angel fire" by "hollie cook"	vessel of love	merge			*	2:02:23 (Pop-up)
hanny	ibarrena "ibarrena" by "hanny"	learn-play bongos v/a with Mr. bongo v/a	mr bongo				2:06:12 (Pop-up)
bobby valentin	funky big feet "funky big feet" by "bobby valentin"	Long Live Boogaloo: 22 Rare Latin Boogaloos from Spanish Harlem '63-'72	secret stash records				2:11:30 (Pop-up)
Bomba Estéreo	bailar conmingo "bailar conmingo" by "Bomba Estéreo"	elegencia tropical	soundway records				2:14:19 (Pop-up)
djavan	serrado "serrado" by "djavan"	gilles peterson in brazil v/a	ether records				2:17:10 (Pop-up)
las deblas	zorongo "zorongo" by "las deblas"	Naino! spanish gipsy soul funk disco 1974-1984	ada			*	2:21:04 (Pop-up)
spanglish fly	chain of fools "chain of fools" by "spanglish fly"	ay que boogaloo!	chaco			*	2:23:49 (Pop-up)
fabio	Lindo sonho delirante "Lindo sonho delirante" by "fabio"	Brazilian Guitar Fuzz Bananas: Tropicalia Psychedelic Masterpieces 1967-1976	tropicalia in furs records				2:28:08 (Pop-up)
juana molina	in the lassa "in the lassa" by "juana molina"	halo	crammed discs				2:29:59 (Pop-up)
DJ Dolores	ciranda da masdrugada "ciranda da masdrugada" by "DJ Dolores"	Aparelhagem	ziriguibom				2:34:18 (Pop-up)
hugo filho	Quem Me Viu Por Al? "Quem Me Viu Por Al?" by "hugo filho"	paraibo	HP				2:39:26 (Pop-up)

carmern miranda	absolutamente "absolutamente" by "carmern miranda"	The Extraordinary Girl	el				2:45:51 (Pop-up)
os mutantes	Fuga No. II "Fuga No. II" by "os mutantes"	Mutantes	m 80 music				2:48:10 (Pop-up)
telebossa	eu sonhei que tu estavas tao linda	telebossa	staubgold				2:51:46 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	8:42pm Trouble: good morning! The artwork gracing our page today is by Brian Chippendale. He also wrote this article which will be included in the discussion at 10:00 with author david goodwin: thecreativeindependent.com...
	9:01am Dave in Vermont: yay, Trouble! I haven't been here live in a while.
	9:03am Trouble: hola dave!
	9:05am TDK60: Morning Trouble. Still catching my breath after that previous show.
	9:06am CHAD PEARSON: Beautiful piece of artwork in the page today!
	9:06am Sem: Good morning, Trouble, Dave in Vermont, TDK60.
	9:06am Dave in Vermont: hi, Sem
	9:08am Linda Lee: wow .. amazing artwork
	9:08am Linda Lee: good morning!
	9:10am northguineahills: cool, Brian Chippendale from Lightning Bolt!
	9:10am TDK60: A semi dub feel?
	9:11am melinda: hi friends
	9:13am TDK60: Early UB40!
	9:13am Peter in Sea: G'morning Trouble, g'morning troubled listener friends, it's still dark n raining on the west coast....
	9:13am Dave in Vermont: y,know, I discovered The Creative Independent because Blast of Hot Air pointed me to it when Faye did their spiral gif logo. I haven't read it in a while but for several months I was reading it everyday. Another way FMU has made my life better.
	9:15am MD: Good Morning Faithful!
	9:15am sphere: hello hello
	9:16am MD: UB40? It's a long time since I be 40! he he he!!!
	9:20am sphere: the McCraven track reminds me of DC's go-go grooves.
	9:21am Trouble: bob marley was born feb 6 1945
	9:21am TDK60: This album was my intro. to reggae!
	9:22am Lucky: Brian Chippendale's article is really pretty amazing.
	9:24am Linda Lee: Happy Birthday Robert Nesta Marley Feb 9. Rest in power.
	9:25am Linda Lee: whoa posting too soon after waking!
	9:25am Dave in Vermont: N.E.S.T.A. by Antibalas is my alarm.
	9:26am adampsyche: ok waking up to the tail end of clay's show and now this i think i'll work from home for quite a bit, lovely set trouble.
	9:27am exile-on-hicks-street: Good morning, @Trouble!
	9:30am Planet Tyler: Good morning Trouble and birds!
	9:32am listener james from westwood: College dinguses overplaying Marley in particular put me off of reggae for way too long. One of these guys, however, actually played Eek-a-Mouse now and again, which exposure served me well years later when I encountered Reggae Schoolroom for the first time.
	9:32am TDK60: Frat boy culture did the same with The Doors in the '80s. // My town's reggae scene was fun -- a mix of hippies and punx.
	9:36am queems: isn’t that the struggle. sigh
	9:36am northguineahills: Bob's cancer started from an injury on his toe he received on an impromptu pickup football/soccer match in Central Park during a NYC stop on a tour.
	9:37am Fernando P.: Marrom!!!!!!
	9:38am listener james from westwood: That my college (Boston College) actually had a fairly decent radio station was a huge relief when the dorm hallways were reverberating with amped replays of the Doors and the same five Grateful Dead tunes on repeat. That and WFNX were how I rolled, with the odd Columbia House binge.
	9:38am Brian C.: IMO, there's a big difference in overplaying both Doors and Wailers. Doors, um, how to put it. Suck?
	9:41am Fernando P.: I know that may be considered inappropriate by nowadays standards, but marrom is how Alcione is known in Brazil.
	9:42am JakeGould: 192 Books is a nice place and sea birds are—generally—good birds. www.192books.com...
	9:43am Fernando P.: Alcione & Axl BFF! goo.gl...
	9:43am JakeGould: To be honest, I favor sparrows nowadays.
	9:43am JakeGould: @TDK60: Fat bot culture made liking “Animal House” and “The Blues Brothers” hard at best.
	9:44am JakeGould: I like those two movies as well as sparrows.
	9:44am TDK60: Don't think the Doors such but it doesn't matter.
	9:44am Brian C.: Whoa, thanks for playing Bunny! Love Dreamland. Saw him play live in NYC c 2002? Would love to see him again
	9:45am TDK60: "suck"
	9:45am sphere: Someone in high school gave me a tape of '60s Atlantic R&B tunes (including Stax-Volt), so watching The Blues Brothers in college had its own magic resonance.
	9:49am emily: good morning, trouble!
	9:49am D. Lightfoot: Hello all. I'm just here for the soft fascination.
	9:49am mb: Good morning all. Listening from home and enjoying!
	9:49am melinda: I understand that the Doors were overplayed but they weren't ruined for me somehow. @Jake I saw Animal House in grade school and thought it was hilarious, but my feelings toward it became more complicated later. Some of it is still great.
	9:50am Brian C.: Doors fans… www.youtube.com...
	9:50am Barney Grubbs: @fernando, coincidentally, Axl shares a birthday with Bob Marley (and Ronald Reagan, Babe Ruth, Aaron Burr, Thurl Ravenscroft, Zsa Zsa Gabor, Rick Astley, and me)
	9:52am TDK60: I did have some uncomfortable encounters with frats in the '80s.
	9:55am sphere: My college was essentially Slacker U. The frat/soro community was so outnumbered that members would start almost every conversation with "fraternities/sororities aren't so bad!"
	9:55am Linda Lee: never had use for frats & thankfully no opportunity to worry about it.
	9:56am drr: also Doors fans: www.youtube.com...
	9:58am Linda Lee: traveling beyond the comfort zone is always a problem for the pioneers. I remember when people outside the area wouldn't come to Soho. then they wouldn't come to the LES. then they wouldn't come to Wiliamsburg.
	9:59am Linda Lee: same old same old. once pioneers prove an area 'marketable' by their presence, forces come to bear to get them out. same old forever.
	10:00am Linda Lee: those are white pioneers, of course.
	10:00am TDK60: Real estate moguls? Sounds familiar.
	10:01am Linda Lee: Trouble is right.
	10:02am melinda: Good point Trouble. Sometimes the trade-off isn't worth it.
	10:03am Linda Lee: y'know, space in the metro area is perennially at such an absolute premium that it always turns out to be worth it, in my experience. we'll put up with just about anything, until it's literally not possible any more.
	10:04am JakeGould: @Trouble: So happy you brought up the silly romanticization of squalor. I grew up in a crappy building and crappy neighborhood and when I became an adult it was hard for me to understand why someone would willfully place themselves in such conditions. Granted, I regret some aspects of avoiding the crappy neighborhoods in NYC back in the 1980s, but still.
	10:04am Ike: "How many people actually relish that environment?" "Some do, probably...." Not many, but a good chunk of those few are at WFMU, LOL. When volunteering over the years I've heard plenty of people pining for the sleazy gross old Times Square of yore. Ew. ;P
	10:07am JakeGould: @Ike: I generally think people who romanticize sleaze to that level really have the choice of being or not being there. Meaning they are “slumming” it. There is some level of freedom to chaotic environments like that, but if you have no choice but to live there that is not really the same thing.
	10:07am D. Lightfoot: Harris Teeter: gentrify your groceries
	10:07am geegee vindaloo: Good interview. It's interesting how this story matches what was going on in Boston at this time. We were in the Fort Point neighborhood in South Boston. For artists in our 20s, this was so exciting, having affordable raw space to create. In the mid 90s we went through the painful negotiation process , losing out in the ned.
	10:08am queems: this is fascinating to me and it hits close to home
	10:09am Linda Lee: @Ike ~ i think it's just a matter of interesting aesthetically vs not interesting. accessible to a sensibility vs not accessible. the authentic vs inauthentic. the fact that unsavory exposes something of human nature that gentrification serves to obscure. i grew up in 60s nyc & there was no doubt times square was interesting! day-to-day living as education was of incredible value to me as a person. just saying. sometimes nostalgia is more than a pose. if you weren't there though .. that's funny.
	10:10am Lewis: this conversation is not helping me get my presentation ready for my 10 o'clock!...
	10:10am melinda: Me too queems.
	10:10am D. Lightfoot: I'm trying to quasi-gentrify a town of 160 people in the middle of nowhere (I am an artist whose medium is living)
	10:10am Mikeee: Upstate NY towns Hudson, Kingston, Beacon once affordable to artists, have increased to luxury standard pricing. WTF
	10:11am Linda Lee: blaming the artists for gentrification! talk about blaming the victim! it's practically a national sport.
	10:11am northguineahills: The goal is to bring the benefits that gentrification can bring to a neighborhood, rather then replacing the neighborhood.
	10:12am queems: i left the city last year for the suburbs so i could maybe afford to make art part time when i’m not at my sad job
	10:12am SSS: Very complex subject. Just don't forget that the MOB and drug infusion into a neighborhood is often involved in gentrification. East Village in particular.
	10:13am drr: New Orleans (where I live) used to be attractive because of cheap rent, but AirBnB and overexposure have ended that fun era. It's now an expensive place to live with all the same problems it had before.
	10:13am northguineahills: (the goal should be)
	10:13am SSS: These moves by the MOB happen in a planned way over several decades.
	10:15am Linda Lee: yes, hudson valley is definitely changing as people in need of space are thrown far afield from home. but you do have a train line back to the mother. @SSS ~ that's right. my grandparents landed in JC as well, in the early 20s. a shame they didn't want to own property there, though they were offered properties many times.
	10:16am Linda Lee: think the word is provincialism ..
	10:16am JakeGould: Oh man, the politics of DUMBO and the people who own those buildings is amazing. The city did not want them to do what they have done. The city wanted to tear down all of those buildings. What it is now is really hypergentrified, but I will say this: That neighborhood still feels welcoming in its own way.
	10:17am PJ: There are no longer any working artists in DUMBO (or at least I haven't seen any in at least five years, and everyone I knew who worked or lived there was forced out by the Walentis family). So, yes, St. Ann's is there, and there is the very nice Brooklyn Bridge park, but these are just amenities for the wealthy people living in their new luxury condos.
	10:17am BronwynB: the conversations about gentrification and the old days of nyc (including at fmu) sometimes frustrate me because a) as a Youth(ish) im tired of hearing that the NYC i always dreamed of living in and finally made it to sucks now because it's not weird or cool enough and I'll never experience the tru magic of Old Weird Dirty Sleazy New York blah blah blah and b) as someone who grew up poor and has lived in very bad neighborhoods, it's not glamorous when you don't have a choice. it can be very interesting but also very scary and sad. gentrification is a scourge because it pushes poor people (mostly POC) out of their homes, not because it makes things less ~cool~
	10:18am Greg from ZONE 5: Morning, gang!
	10:18am βrian: Horace Greeley's imperative still holds: Go west!
	10:18am PJ: @JakeGould - Dumbo is welcoming for tourists and tech bros these days, not so much for regular people, and definitely not for artists.
	10:18am Linda Lee: & this is why people value a sense of the authentic & therefore have nostalgia for the authentic. because much of what we value aesthetically is turning to window dressing for wealth.
	10:18am steveo: great talk -- thanks!
	10:19am queems: @bronwyn well said
	10:20am BronwynB: thanks queems :)
	10:20am Linda Lee: BronwynB ~ ignore nostalgia. don't let it bug you. the idea is, make your own fantastic weird when & where you can. that's what we do.
	10:20am ⓘⓚⓔ: @Linda@10:09, fair enough! "That unsavory exposes something of human nature that gentrification serves to obscure"... hmm, interesting!
	10:21am JakeGould: @PJ: Well, not as a renter or owner, right. But just being in the neighborhood gives an outsider something to do. The tech dude bros and all that stuff are annoying. But that kind of hypergentrification is utterly everywhere nowadays. Some places are just more exclusionary about it.
	10:21am TDK60: I'm struggling to understand David's main conclusion.
	10:23am Linda Lee: oh yeah. definitely. & even if we have no choice but to live in rough neighborhoods ~ as i have, as Bronwyn has ~ we benefit from that awareness of human nature. no use denying that or resenting it. then we do what we can with it depending on our character.
	10:23am glenn: most people who are nostalgic for something have never lived through what they're nostalgic for.
	10:23am BronwynB: @Linda: that's my plan. people tell me i missed out on the weird artistic times but im just trying to make my own doing weird theatre and starting a group for occult studies, etc.
	10:23am Priscilla: This is so interesting!
	10:24am melinda: @glenn not necessarily.
	10:24am queems: i mean part of the problem is society’s view on art and artists. it’s disposable unless it can be used to make money or enrich the lives of wealthy people
	10:25am Linda Lee: @rBronwynB ~ there you go! brava!!! back in the day in nyc we didn't think wow, wish this was the 1940s! (though that was a truly fantastic time in nyc). we just got on with it.
	10:25am βrian: @glenn: The 60s were awesome, right?
	10:26am Passaic River Blues: I often think people's reductive criticisms of gentrification fail to realize their problem isn’t so much with gentrification as an isolated trend as it is with late capitalism generally and its attendant exploitative racism as its most useful lever. Gentrification is merely the “upswing” phase of the endless cycle of capital harvesting maximum value from real property; redlining, block-busting, and impoverishment is the “downswing” phase. Money is made at each step. The particular dynamics at any given moment for each neighborhood are individual and specific and, of course, there are unthinking market forces at work, but there are also larger structural issues always churning away.
	10:26am Linda Lee: queems ~ forutnately or unfortunately, the creative drive exists regardless of what happens to art.
	10:26am sphere: To me, every decade is awesome if you look at it in the right way.
	10:26am BronwynB: nice linda, i like that analogy. although my mom does say that growing up in the 70s she sometimes felt like she missed out on the 30s and 40s (her favorite era of music) :D
	10:26am JakeGould: Slight detour, but in NYC attempts at “affordable” housing are a joke. The city gives tax incentives to developers. That sounds good right? A lot of “affordable” places are seriously going for $2,000 to $3,000 a month. And if you want those magical $500 a month apartments in some developments? Your max income must be $30,000 or so a year. What the fuck?!?!
	10:26am glenn: so they tell me. i was too busy trying to get through grade school.
	10:26am Linda Lee: see? :-D
	10:26am PJ: @JakeGould - You're right, it could certainly be worse. I worked in the JC waterfront area for a while, and there was really nothing to do there. It was hard to even find a decent spot to eat lunch.
	10:27am queems: @linda true
	10:27am JakeGould: @PJ: Food trucks are the diners of the 21st Century.
	10:27am βrian: Everything started going downhill when people stopped writing in cursive, damn it.
	10:28am northguineahills: PRB: My Master's thesis involved the history and spatial analysis and modeling gentrification, and you're spot on (that was 15 years ago).
	10:28am melinda: @Linda regarding artists being blamed for gentrification, I think it's understandable in a way since everyone knows they are the first step in that direction, but it's like the critics and protesters are going after soft targets rather than focusing higher up or on larger systems at work.
	10:28am ⓘⓚⓔ: @glenn, great point -- or in many cases they're just nostalgic for being young, and the rest of the stuff was much more incidental than they realize.
	10:28am northguineahills: errr.. modeling of gentrification
	10:28am JakeGould: @brian: I want to relearn cursive.
	10:28am Linda Lee: @Passaic River Blues ~ dead on. correct. of course.
	10:29am Linda Lee: @melinda ~ darn right.
	10:29am melinda: @PRB well stated.
	10:29am queems: this is so interesting that i’m not getting any work done
	10:29am TDK60: We need affordable housing for everyone -- the poor, the working class, and artists. But, we don't have it.
	10:30am sphere: Let the Re-Rebirth of Calligraphy begin!
	10:30am Linda Lee: don't know why you wouldn't be nostalgic for a time when your art was first, making a living second. how is that not lovely? the point is that it doesn't matter.
	10:31am βrian: Correction to an earlier statement: There is a $10 yearly fee to keep chickens in Madison, WI.
	10:31am JakeGould: Not calligraphy. Cursive.
	10:32am queems: smith st is a ghost town these days
	10:32am queems: lots of turnover in recent years
	10:32am JakeGould: Yeah, but Smith Street is now hypergentrified. Not a fun place anymore.
	10:33am PJ: @PRB - there's a good book that came out last year, Fear City, about how Republicans and developers used NYC's fiscal crisis in the 70s as leverage to break unions and sell public property at bargain basement prices to developers (including Trump!) along with massive tax breaks, which they then sell or lease as luxury housing.
	10:33am northguineahills: I remember when I wouldn't walk Bushwick (heck parts of Williamsburg) alone, and then I moved to Bushwick.
	10:34am Passaic River Blues: @PJ: ooh, that book sounds good to me. Thank you for the tip.
	10:34am northguineahills: (and back then, I lived in Bed-Stuy, i got jumped many times there)
	10:35am PJ: Smith Street is a ghost town because the landlords all want Sephora/Chase Bank money for their storefronts, which most Mom and Pops can't afford.
	10:35am Webhamster Henry: There's some concern about gentrification here in Kingston, NY. Kingston has primarily three parts: Uptown, Midtown, and the Rondout. While the cityencouraging artists and other creatives to colonize Midtown, Uptown is getting some boutique hotels and the rents are rising, kind of removing the low-margin stores that are the main attraction. Again, the tax abatements go to the new rich developers, not the existing mom & pops.
	10:35am JakeGould: @northguineahills: In the later 1980s I remember going to Williamsburg. Was in the train. Just me and some guy on the L train. While in the tunnel he pulls out a butterfly knife and is playing with it right in front of me. Then I get to Lorimer Street and get out and it’s immediately urban squalor and crap. At least I didn’t pay $5 for a cookie back then.
	10:36am queems: @pj ding ding ding
	10:37am JakeGould: @PJ: Smith Street went from urban blight in the 1980s to high rent blight in the 21st century/
	10:37am queems: nyc affordable housing is a joke
	10:38am northguineahills: @Jake: I remember going to a party at friend's warehouse off the Bedford stop in 2001, and at 10pm is was deserted, and spooky. By 2003 in was a whole new ball game.
	10:38am Linda Lee: @Webhamster Henry ~ was in Kingston last this fall (i'm about an hour southwest) visiting friends working there. we were in Midtown. still seemed like a happy secret, but the bloom's fading from the rose for sure.
	10:39am PJ: DG, right on, I don't understand why abatements and PILOTs are necessary when we are talking about the most valuable property on the East Coast. These developers will build under whatever conditions you prescribe, so why not demand 50% actual affordable housing, and artspace, and whatever else we want as a community?
	10:39am JakeGould: @northguineahills: Yeah, 2001 to 2007 was still rough. Now it’s an outdoor mall.
	10:40am Linda Lee: @Jake ~ 2 little white girls from the East Village moved to south williamsburg in 85 & believe it or not, our neighborhood was nothing but welcoming & friendly. dope wasn't a big thing there yet. that took a few years. & then of course came the robberies & so on.
	10:40am steveo: Kimzilla & Emily did a show on the Loew's JC which I have not listened to yet but which is probably excellent wfmu.org...
	10:41am steveo: i have really enjoyed hearing this talk -- thanks for for coming in, David, and thanks for hosting, Trouble (I used to work in Jersey City in the early 00's)
	10:42am queems: that was great, thanks!
	10:43am Linda Lee: i lived in JC with my grandparents for the whole of the 60s. haven't been there since their deaths in the 80s. i should drop in & see what's what! :-)
	10:43am TDK60: David's thesis is available as a PDF: 111 1st Street Jersey City, NJ: The Life and Death of an Arts Community.
	10:43am Webhamster Henry: @Linda Lee : We in Kingston have a consciousness of the economic and social danger. The city got a grant of $10M to fix up uptown, but a lot is going toward kind of upscale-y incentives rather than infrastructure improvements.
	10:44am JakeGould: @LindaLee: Yeah, the mid 1980s is when NYC really started to slide. Even my neighborhood in Brooklyn was crappy but there was community and our landlord was nice. Then he sold the building and it fell to crap and our neighborhood became known more and more as the place you could score good cheap heroin in. What’s not to like?
	10:44am Webhamster Henry: Thanks, Trouble, for a little Talk Radio! You should take over for Lopate!
	10:45am melinda: @Henry yes!
	10:45am Barney Grubbs: That science/art comparison from the Chippendale piece made me happy (& depressed at the same time)
	10:46am PJ: The whole Exchange Place area in JC is a real missed opportunity, miles of waterfront property with just glass office towers and condos. But this is how most development and re-development is in the US since the 70s, mediocre buildings and few amenities and why on earth would anyone want to spend time there?
	10:46am Itzall Ablurr: Dear TDK60, thanks for the info. I really want to get his book and will most definitely read this work as well.
	10:46am Linda Lee: @Webhamster Henry ~ jeez .. feeders at the trough taking their tithe. @JakeGould ~ it's basically a given that viable communities are almost always purposely driven to shit for the benefit of the controllers. we wrongly blame the community, as if its intrinsic weakness forced its destruction. but bombing is bombing.
	10:46am stu: Hi Trouble from cool and crispy Finland.
	10:47am Itzall Ablurr: And of course, thank you, Trouble for the great show this morning.
	10:48am Linda Lee: @Webmaster Henry ~ problem is the distribution of resources, seems like. who decides where the money goes..
	10:48am Dean: The book is also on Muse for those who have access to its contents: https://muse.jhu.edu/book/53037/
	10:49am Linda Lee: of course i fucked up your name. sorry.
	10:49am PJ: Trouble, I second the call for you to have your own talk radio show. Thanks for the thought-provoking and anger-generating conversation with DG, as always for the great music.
	10:52am TDK60: That's a good idea -- an additional Trouble talk show. It would be very unusual in that the discussion would be thought provoking.
	10:52am PJ: I also think that part of the problem is that in smaller and poorer communities, politicians have little experience in dealing with the amounts of money that developers throw around and are just happy that anything is happening rather than blight, so that they miss out on the things that could really benefit the community if the redevelopment were done more intelligently.
	10:53am TDK60: Is Station Mgr. Ken reading the comments? Or shall we direct his attention?
	10:55am Linda Lee: no word yet from Trouble on the idea .. :-)
	10:56am Passaic River Blues: @WH, PJ & TDK60: a Trouble talk show built around a probing interview of an author on an interesting subject? YES.
	10:58am βrian: Mais enfin ! Les oiseaux !
	10:58am PJ: Re the talk show, assuming, of course, that Trouble would want to do it, even if time elsewhere is unavailable, maybe an hour of the current show could be set aside for these kinds of conversations. Even though I would miss that hour of music, there are so few places to hear these kind of discussions (that I am aware of.)
	11:01am JakeGould: FWIW, Jersey City is really nice. But the whole finance district—offices and condos for workers—is kinda insane. It’s like an office park by the shore. At least the NYC financial district has some life.
	11:01am βrian: Jersey Garden is a euphemism for shopping mall?
	11:02am Dean: It is her third, if you don't count the remix album by Prince Fatty.
	11:03am Dean: "Presents Hollie Cook in Dub"...nice.
	11:03am Passaic River Blues: @Brian: The Jersey Gardens is an actual mall in Elizabeth, near Newark Airport. It's cursed ground I am forced to visit a few times a year. (I did see "Bridesmaids" there--that was nice.)
	11:04am Trouble: hey guys! i was saying goodbye to my guest so i couldnt read comments. thanks for all your good words. i do miss leonard lopate's interviews.
	11:04am βrian: Wow. Stranger than fiction.
	11:05am Ken From Hyde Park: Very nice work today, Trouble!
	11:05am queems: jersey gardens is an experience, i will say that
	11:06am βrian: Garden state makes more sense now.
	11:09am ⓔⓘⓚ: Jersey Gardens is just about the least garden-like place in existence, and kind of depressing even as malls go. You should be cursed to have ivy grow all over your body if you name something "[Whatever] Gardens" and there are no actual gardens there!
	11:09am Dean: Madison Square?
	11:12am βrian: Olive?
	11:12am βrian: Beer?
	11:12am Priscilla: Dancing on my desk
	11:13am slowbear: this is making my commute effing amazing thank you
	11:13am glenn: trump gardens. where bullshit flourishes.
	11:13am Linda Lee: hey girl! love it!
	11:13am Dean: Madison Square Olive Beer...has a nice ring...
	11:13am Itzall Ablurr: Priscilla: SAME here!
	11:14am TDK60: WFMU's little building is old and quaint compared to the glass offices surrounding. Well, WFMU is next to the old Post Office building, still running.
	11:16am Kate from NYC and more recently SF: Not listening right now but just saw this. Did you know about this? https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/cdc-chickens-backyard-salmonella-kissing-cuddling
	11:18am Trouble: thanks kate! we do not cuddle our chickens: they wouldn't stand for it!
	11:18am queems: yikes
	11:20am JakeGould: I miss malls. Discovered this great article from 2013 talking about how “Fast Times at Ridgemont High” and “Valley Girl” are time capsules of a world of retail that doesn’t exist anymore. www.kcet.org...
	11:20am drr: Thanks for the good interview, that was like a personally relevant On Point.
	11:22am r i s k y: Hi trubzzzz - keep em rockin!!
	11:23am steveo: i should buy this album (and a record player)
	11:23am steveo: oh, and a bigger apartment (see real estate discussion)
	11:24am Linda Lee: those disco strings helped mitigate new york filth, children. :-D
	11:25am Dean: I, too, have a soft spot for malls, so long as I don't think for too long about the inherent racism that spawned the suburbia that was formative for me. When I would hie to Victoriaville for the festival I'd kill time in the morning having coffee at the mall. It was a comfortable familiar site, for all intents and purposes identical to the ones I knew from Southern California, except all of the signage was in French.
	11:25am SG: This set is really warming up this corner of NH!
	11:26am Linda Lee: same for the snowy catskills, SG!
	11:27am exile-on-hicks-street: That electric piano riff sounds familiar...
	11:28am queems: i’ve got a question for trouble/any local fiber people out there- does anyone know of any places in north jersey that offer yarn spinning classes? my internet searches have brought up a lot of outdates lists and dead links. thanks in advance!
	11:29am βrian: Never cared much for malls. I always tried to get in and out as fast as possible. And the air had a strange soul-dessicating effect.
	11:30am melinda: My favorite mall from childhood was converted into a community college campus. I loved the mall back then but don't miss it.
	11:31am βrian: Are malls likely places to be converted to arts hubs? Or is their location and layout just too peculiar?
	11:32am melinda: Brian I wonder about that too. I think it could happen with the right mall and location.
	11:33am TDK60: Always hated malls. Wasn't Paramus, NJ's the first? // Love Juana Molina by the way.
	11:34am exile-on-hicks-street: The Newburgh Mall (does that exist?) and the Orange Plaza mall both had excellent video arcades. It is not unusual for imagined versions of these malls to be sets/locations for my dreams.
	11:36am Trouble: @queems check out white barn farm in new paltz, she might teach spinning or know of someone. it's an easy drive and gorgeous!
	11:37am Dean: "A place of curiosity, ritual, and fantasy..." https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/shopping-mall-9781501314827/ That's probably overstating the effect.
	11:38am melinda: Thinking of malls reminds me of food trends that have passed, like potato-focused fast-food restaurants with silly names. When I was a kid one of my favorite mall joints was Tater Junction, and the mall in my college town had a Super Spud. Then again, maybe there still are potato restaurants I'm missing because I avoid malls now.
	11:38am Linda Lee: my gosh i cannot wait for summer in these mountains. brrrrrrr :-)
	11:38am Linda Lee: Trouble, this set is just delicious. absolutely delicious. thank you.
	11:39am queems: @trouble thanks!! i used to climb rocks in new paltz! agreed, it is lovely up there. i will definitely check it out!
	11:40am Linda Lee: i've always found malls disorienting. no sense of natural light .. which is how i find myself in space :-D
	11:40am Dean: Southdale Center in MN, "oldest fully enclosed shopping mall in the country," though Valley Fair Shopping Center in Appleton, WI, was earlier, but hosted only six stores.
	11:40am Trouble: obrigado @ linda lee
	11:40am steveo: It's cold down here too, Linda :) & I am also loving this set
	11:41am Dean: Southdale opened in October 1956.
	11:41am Linda Lee: where are you steveo? sorry, i forget! getting on you know
	11:41am melinda: @Linda yeah, no natural light is bad. Though some have skylights.
	11:42am Ken From Hyde Park: Dead malls in New Jersey: www.deadmalls.com...
	11:42am Warwick joe: Great show, from the interview to the music to the dj banter.
	11:43am Linda Lee: @melinda ~ true! but somehow it doesn't help. like a prison window i guess .. what i need is landscape & the relative position of the sun.
	11:43am glenn: that's a lot of dead malls.
	11:44am TDK60: I suppose we don't need another Trouble talk show, if she can easily do that here in-between the music. Maybe a bit more often?
	11:44am steveo: sorry, Linda; you can't read my mind?; live in Brooklyn work in Hell's Kitchen
	11:45am Linda Lee: ah! where are you in Brooklyn? even after all that's happened .. love Brooklyn. moving from manhattan in '81 was such a revelation. sky!!! :-)
	11:46am Linda Lee: speaking of art spaces .. dead malls.
	11:47am JakeGould: Early goodbye but still listening because work. THANKS TROUBLE!!!
	11:47am Linda Lee: wow look at all the dead hudson valley malls ~ & here come the artists looking for space to live & work! hello??
	11:48am exile-on-hicks-street: Same - @Trouble-Great show today.
	11:48am common: purdy
	11:48am Priscilla: I could go for Tater Junction about now...
	11:49am Leelee: Ahhh love this Os Mutantes... so dreamy
	11:49am exile-on-hicks-street: Aw, man.... Now you play Os Mutantes? :)
	11:49am steveo: Linda, i live near Grand Army Plaza. my not-yet-wife dragged me out there from the east village in the 00s. we think about moving upstate but... jobs
	11:49am Webhamster Henry: @Linda Lee - The Hudson Valley Mall is definitely dying out - and even if they were to convert it to housing, there's lousy bus service there!
	11:52am Trouble: obrigado! thanks for sitting in today and all your fab comments!
	11:54am TDK60: Believe it or not, lots of Brazilian tourists come to NYC in the winter.
	11:55am βrian: Coming up: Underwater Theme Park with Meghan wfmu.org...
	11:56am Linda Lee: @steveo ~ nice neighborhood for sure. & you're not the only ones thinking about relocating! here's the funny thing .. the more folks come .. the more jobs created to serve. i believe that's how it goes. the trick is, don't pick up a city-income mortgage!! that's the mistake people make.
	11:57am Linda Lee: @Webhamster Henry ~ opportunity for creating citizen bus service! :-)
	11:58am Linda Lee: @TDK60 - shopping opportunities in the off-season?
	11:59am TDK60: Cheaper flights? Too see winter weather? I know not.
	12:00pm Linda Lee: just you wait .. co-housing community is coming. this is how we transform dead spaces & areas affordably. the nuclear family is over. it's just a matter of time.
	12:00pm TDK60: "to"
	12:00pm steveo: i wonder about providence, which Trouble mentioned earlier; seem like a nice place... Thanks for the show, DJ Trouble!
	12:00pm Passaic River Blues: Thank you, Trouble!

This Is The Modern World with Trouble: Playlist from February 8, 2018

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