WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from February 10, 2025

Listener comments!
	♥ 5:53pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonellicommunicators!
	6:01pm David (in London): Evening Mark and all Technoids here gathered.
	6:01pm hectic: i'm excited for this show! as the only 15 year old i know who makes the conscious choice not to have a cell phone, i must say i enjoy the weekly rant. keep it up!
	♥ 6:01pm Will thee SG OCNY: Good evening Mark Hurst and all!!!
	🤖 ♥ 6:02pm Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Good evening Mark and techno people.
	♥ 6:02pm Handy Haversack: Hey, Mark, Techyons.
	♥ 6:04pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtoniques!
	♥ 6:05pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Mark and phonies! TV commercials are beckoning people to download tax preparation apps and do their taxes on their phones. Seems like a wacky concept to me.
	6:07pm hectic: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:05 what? of course not. what a great idea. it'll be so much easier now on your phone.
	♥ 6:08pm Franco Twinkie: We can light black candles and make fun of them. Beyond that, I have no idea.
	6:08pm Andres: Handy gets Producer credit.
	♥ 6:08pm Handy Haversack: Glad this worked out! As soon as I saw August's work, I figured it was a match made in serious-attention heaven.
	♥ 6:09pm paddy in matawan: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:05 I have actually done my taxes on my phone one year. I was shocked it worked.
	♥ 6:09pm paddy in matawan: Nice rec. Handy!
	6:10pm Mattynotimes: I think it even goes past that. We’ve lived in a luxury vs survival society for so long now our reality spectrum is completely askew
	6:11pm Mattynotimes: Great interview! Very excited
	♥ 6:12pm cosmic matrix: Hallo there!
	♥ 6:12pm Spikey BXL: Hello Mark, luddites
	6:13pm A2B: Hello Mark, Technocrats & Technocrits! This topic always gets me coming back here for conversation. Ironically, I've been doing without a smartphone (or any kind of mobile phone, for that matter) for the last several months (which is about the same time I've last commented here, coincidentally). Likely won't be making a final decision on a newphone until after I've reviewed tonight's installment.
	6:13pm Mattynotimes: The other side of that is that people born into cell phones don’t have any perspective of what life could be like without it. We have 30-40 more years of people who were alive before them but after that all of history will be rewritten
	♥ 6:13pm DjLorraine: I'm here for this !
	6:14pm MarciB: I love that August is also an artist - which makes total sense that she's anti smartphone.
	♥ 6:14pm Webhamster Henry: Does anyone have their face buried in a newspaper?
	6:14pm Andres: Anyone else notice Nick Siriani holding his young son in his arms post-game and his son was holding a smartphone?
	6:14pm Sam: This is so weird to me. I think about what technology makes us lose constantly. As far as what we gain from it? I mean, nothing of substance.
	6:15pm jan: I’m out on the streets of NyC, listening to the show!
	♥ 6:15pm ultradamno: I was walking out of the supermarket the other day and the guy walking in front of me was, in agitation, talking to himself, or his bluetooth device. There's something else we lose, the ability to confidently identify who is having a legitimate conversation and who is insane.
	6:15pm MarciB: I read magazines on the train. I'm usually the only person.
	6:15pm GC in Oakland: I chose to stasis-grade with my 2012 PowerBook 17 inch with cd drive and iTunes. Stuck with it through motherboard failure, and cd drive failure…..now the big browsers don’t support its old OS. Never had a computer that succeeded it. For a certain old set of tasks i keep a 2004 PowerBook on hand, had to procure a circa 1984 printer just to print stuff out.
	♥ 6:15pm Webhamster Henry: I used to take advantage of teh zombie-like state of train riders to sketch them . I KNOW - I WAS VIOLATING THEIR PRIVACY.
	6:15pm MarciB: ↳ ultradamno @6:15 I think this a lot
	6:16pm ChristinaInCanada: That shared book-reading experience never happens to me now, on the bus/elevated light rapid transit. I do bring a print book with me and I do read it as best I can, even when I have to stand in a public transit bus/car.
	6:16pm Sam: ↳ ultradamno @6:15 There’s nothing insane about talking to yourself. It’s very healthy and helps you organize your thoughts.
	6:16pm hectic: the other kids are all phone zombies now. it's hard to relate.
	♥ 6:16pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ GC in Oakland @6:15 I have 2 busted 17" MacBooks. 17" rules! But now I have a 16", not such a sacrifice.
	6:17pm Andres: Park your car without a phone? Crazy.
	6:17pm ms boo: Regarding requiring surveillance phones… Macy’s got rid of the store map and just has a QR code to download their app. I just needed to find the bathroom!!!
	♥ 6:17pm ultradamno: ↳ Sam @6:16 Come on, man.
	♥ 6:17pm Handy Haversack: Never had a cell phone here.
	6:18pm MarciB: I sometimes keep track of the phone zombies I see around my neighborhood - but I often lose count after a while. Too many.
	♥ 6:18pm PaulRobeson1925: To what problem is this technology designed to solve
	♥ 6:18pm Mike Sin: I first started riding NJ Transit since the 1980s… Folks have always had their heads buried in something… newspapers, books, work stuff… Sure, folks are burying their heads in tracking devices now, and that’s uncool, but the train was never this social experience of folks having spontaneous conversations.
	6:18pm hectic: ↳ Andres @6:17 to use the parking meters you have to download the app.
	6:19pm herb.nyc: Yes, being ONE with another NON headphoner or NON phoner, but I’ve not spoken with that other person. Maybe I will now.
	6:19pm castor: One thing you miss if you wear headphones on the train are the rare moments when the conductor comes on the speaker and says something really funny, like calling it the G for Groovy Train. When it happens and I’m the only one noticing and laughing I feel so sad.
	6:19pm yippie: i started listening to music on my headphones on the train a lot so i don't need to listen to everyone else who is playing tiktok videos out loud.
	♥ 6:20pm Folsom: ↳ Mike Sin @6:18 Yeah I used to have a walkman, listening to my cassettes on the train, I don't see much difference.
	6:20pm ChristinaInCanada: I prefer it when people use their headphones to listen to audio on their devices to people sitting next or behind me and listening to their audio at high volume without my consent.
	6:20pm Juli P: SO happy to hear this.
	6:22pm hectic: the other day i was in a waiting room and this woman was swiping through things on her phone. OUT LOUD. it was so annoying to hear the beginning of something just get cut off. but i'm so mad about people's attention spans nowadays! it's like you're so obsessed with what comes next that you're just swiping and swiping and swiping!
	6:23pm Sam: I stopped listening to music on the train once I got a phone that didn’t have a plug for my old headphones. And now that I’m used to real life and situational awareness I can never go back to blocking out the world.
	6:24pm A2B: ↳ hectic @6:16 So why try? Follow my example: Keep yourself out of their collective radar. Take your observation as a sign that you're unique and know better than to waste your time with things you can't relate to. (Just try to avoid talking about it to others unless they feel you).
	6:25pm Juli P: I stop scrolling: I rarely do
	♥ 6:26pm cosmic matrix: Not to mention the phone being a disease vector! Reddit on the toilet, anyone?? :)
	♥ 6:27pm Steve Del Sol: This chat stream is the only "social media" I participate in. I saw this future, that all these systems would amplify negativity, not even realizing the algorithmic aspect to it. I am deep into tech (CAD engineer) but wall the nonsense off. And read only vetted news.
	♥ 6:27pm PaulRobeson1925: Life is what I say it is
	6:27pm hectic: ↳ A2B @6:24 yeah, i used to complain about the internet with other kids but they didn't enjoy that. so now i just talk about other stuff with them and it can be interesting. i just wish lots of them would stop wasting their time on them, you know? i'm trying to accept that i'm just more aware of this than them.
	6:27pm ChristinaInCanada: this isn't tech-averse but it is surveillance-averse: I retreated to command-line pubnix environment. I had a nice IRC session with a half-dozen people, I am microblogging without angry reply-guys or others' doomy boosts. Slower and smaller, when I can't go out and engage in meatspace
	♥ 6:28pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:27 History is what I say it is
	♥ 6:28pm Steve Del Sol: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:28 Are you vetted?
	6:29pm Juli P: I'm on Instagram trying to find humans. It makes me so happy tho so I am putting it down more IT also Ruined my eyes working on the phone
	6:29pm Juli P: SO UNHAPPY lol
	♥ 6:29pm Webhamster Henry: The productivity advances in workplace tech over the last 50 years just has turned into more uncompensated labor.
	6:30pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: the hardest part of jumping off technology: it can be really hard to find the same kind of support in real life
	6:31pm Mark T: ↳ Song: "Interview with August Lamm" Awesome discussion
	♥ 6:32pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ Steve Del Sol @6:28 Hello, Mr.Steve. I’m wondering, what’s fer dinner?
	6:33pm hectic: ↳ Steve Del Sol @6:27 the only thing i do on my computer is check my email and look at this website. it's easier to do less on this because i dont go to school. everything at schools is on screens now.
	6:33pm joe_rosevear: Hmmm. I agree that popular technology is annoying and troublesome. So, yes, perhaps no computer at all would be a good choice. Some of us, however, use a PC that is Linux based, and mostly disconnected from the evil empire.
	6:33pm Jeff Moore: I've been upgrading... our landlines! When people talk on the phone, way too often they do it by pressing an awkward small slab-shaped pocket computer up to the side of their head, and it's by absolutely no means a pleasant experience. Cell "phones" are actually absolutely terrible actual phones. So I've been making sure that when anyone in out home wants to talk by voice with another human being somewhere else, it can be done using a dedicated hardwired device optimized for talking, with a nice comfortable real handset. But I'm actually letting a little bit of newer technology slip in, because I think it's not completely un-useful: the dedicated desk (or kitchen WALL, with a big long coiled handset cord just like the Beforetimes) phones are VOIP (Voice-Over-IP) devices with a digital connection direct to each phone – just because the sound quality of the calls is really nice, and might improve the subtleties of the person-to-person link while chatting. I love the resiliency and bulletproof build of the old-fashioned real copper-wire POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) phone system of yore – with sturdy Western Electric phone instruments which could be used as a club then make a call just fine, and all those phones powered by the phone network even through a blackout in your home – but Verizon allowed all the copper wiring to rot and somehow got out from under the requirement to maintain that essential infrastructure, and switched us all to fake-copper service using VOIP to the home which then drove the copper wires in our house... so none of the reliability of classic POTS, but the bandwidth and flexibility limitations of copper phone lines. So I figured if we'd be living with the fragility of VOIP, we might as well optimize for its advantages. I'm digging that.
	6:33pm Kid Kodama: really enjoying this conversation. I feel very dependent on my phone, it also gives me some really fantastic experiences while commuting, that are almost exclusively related to listening to music. I should invest in a walkman or something
	6:34pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: it's so messed up that so many of us need smart phones for so many things and even for safety (travelling etc. like we can't just stop and ask for directions everywhere especially travelling alone/vulnerable, and plus nobody knows directions or too suspicious to help lol), we need to build more robust communities!! but in the meantime, I use this thing for everything I can't afford from education to therapy
	♥ 6:35pm mndave: ↳ hectic @6:33 It's so frustrating to see my nieces and nephews with their school-issued chromebooks and ipads. I don't care if the devices lack social media or unfilitered internet, it's the conditioning to depend on screens through their formative years.
	6:35pm A2B: ↳ hectic @6:27 Consider yourself lucky. As long as you're not the kind who brings attention to himself/herself, you won't get yourself in a heated conversation that escalates into aggressive behavior.
	6:36pm nickybones: Social media seems like the worst part of the surveillance phone. Of course, you’re surveilled other places but social media is probably the worst avenue for it. Weirdly, having a laptop & surveillance phone is sorta freeing for me, allowing me to work remotely so I can do things like tour and work from the van.
	6:36pm Aravind: Hello Mark & August, Great discussion. Here are some articles from the NY Times this week about this topic - https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/01/magazine/anna-lembke-interview.html AND https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/30/style/luddite-teens-reunion.html?smid=url-share
	6:37pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: i got off major social media a few years ago and while I feel sooooo much better in many ways, I've also missed out on so many shows, updates, peoples entire lives, in the years in between. catching up with people I hadn't seen in ages, I realized how much I missed. even close friends forget to call cuz they forget I didn't get the facebook invite. we need to figure out how to bridge the gap in our communities
	♥ 6:37pm ultradamno: Well, Zuck has his hands full addressing the unfairness of his in house comments being leaked with no regard for his privacy when he's trying to be so transparent.
	6:38pm hectic: ↳ mndave @6:35 it's funny, when i went to school we always hated how lots of stuff was 'restricted'. now i'm thankful it was and i see what a good idea it is! but it's a solution to a problem that never needed to exist.
	6:39pm hectic: thanks for the show mark! i'm just gonna listen now. time to get off the tech
	6:40pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: places where people can gather freely in person without spending money are severely lacking, which feeds directly into the smartphone addiction. people are lonely
	♥ 6:41pm PaulRobeson1925: Wearing an ear ring!!!!
	♥ 6:41pm PaulRobeson1925: Two earrings on the same ear!!!!
	♥ 6:41pm PaulRobeson1925: Three earings!!!!
	6:42pm Jessica B: In the future I envision tech-free communities, just like August suggested. The catch is that only the wealthy will be able to live there.
	6:42pm kata: I used to do "Device-Free Saturdays." I made it up. It's a great first step, and makes the rest of the week better!
	6:42pm mr_donutsu: But, but, this phone is my lifeline to WFMU. Sigh
	6:43pm pmcWhenever: balance. it is relative to your conditions. changing conditions aka environment, peeps, places… we have bodies that want to move and inhabit space… balance is a dynamic process… put the screens away every day at the same rough time and really be with what you are doing that isn’t mediated by a screen…
	♥ 6:43pm Bas NL: Traveling on public transport these days is like stepping in to a zombie movie. Everybody is glued to a phone.
	6:43pm nickybones: This is a bit of an overstatement. Tell Mariame Kaba she’s not radical because she’s using a smartphone and posting on Bluesky.
	6:43pm ChristinaInCanada: So much for engagement. Interesting that my command-line experience today on a small server had much more engagement with people in Brazil, Germany, and Australia, none of whom I had encountered online before, all new people. Bye
	6:43pm castor: What about having a really old smartphone that you can't use most apps on because they don't work?
	♥ 6:44pm PaulRobeson1925: I agree. It’s interesting to wonder how do we come to know what we know? The civil war for example. Oh, you know about the America Civil war? What have you read on 1861-1865v
	♥ 6:45pm mndave: ↳ castor @6:43 the catch is that device support and security updates are sunsetted thanks to forced obsolescence. unless you've got a rotating roster of slightly less out-of-date devices at the ready, it's still going to be a hindrance sooner rather than later
	♥ 6:45pm PaulRobeson1925: It’s like trying to tell a T.V lover to stop watching T.V. Give up yer phone. Ok, yea.. i ummm i’ll think about that…
	6:45pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: I think addressing the hole a smartphone attempts to fill for a person (social, navigation, tool, etc) is most effective in reducing the need for the phone in the first place. Ive made waves of attempts to kick the smartphone but i keep picking it back up because I have things to do, and that's what I got... interested in mid and low tech solutions people have been introducing!
	6:47pm Sb: try a Kyocera dumb-phone
	♥ 6:47pm Bas NL: The Netherlands is gearing down on 3G.. no more old style phones.. :(
	6:48pm Jeff Moore: Yes, and if you want to take a photo – use an actual camera! www.flickr.com...
	6:49pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: yeah I'm Panicked About Navigation it's called being lost and alone in an unfamiliar place LOL I value my life
	6:49pm A2B: Speaking of Zuckboy, I was reminded that the farmer in "Charlotte's Web" is named Zuckerman (I have the DVD of the Hanna-Barbera adaptation), which gave me an idea for a song parody of the movie's climax number "Zuckerman's Famous Pig". My parody version would be called "Zuckerberg's Facebook Page". Just have to get cracking on thinking up the lyrics.
	♥ 6:50pm chresti: It's a lot to take on a bus
	♥ 6:50pm Webhamster Henry: Well, the convergence of tools in one device could be faked with a flashlight that is a mirror, a wind-up clock and a few other analog devices.
	♥ 6:51pm mndave: ↳ red_door_what_for in ypsilanti @6:49 The obvious irony is that everyone who uses navigation is still lost. My ex used to make wrong turns out of our driveway because the GPS didn't orient them immediately.
	6:51pm GorillaFella: What about things like location sharing with friends to stay safe on dates and travels in unfamiliar areas? Or access to things like uber if you dont have a car and live somewhere without public transport?
	6:51pm Sam: But then you have to carry all that stuff around. I used to shlep around a portable CD player and a camera and a flip phone. That was no fun. And I had to wear a watch.
	🤖 ♥ 6:52pm listener 126464: On the lightphone bandwagon.
	6:53pm Jeff Moore: ↳ Sam @6:51 One should still wear a watch, always.
	6:53pm Juli P: Thinking about the answers, friends
	6:54pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: @mndave sure lol but I'm talking about safety. when my car broke down in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere for example. also walking home at night. I'm not exactly "big and tough looking" and human trafficking is crazy around here. having my phone has saved me from bad situations where I needed an exit. I hate that I need it.
	6:54pm Sam: ↳ Jeff Moore @6:53 I can’t wear watches, rings, chains, anything like that on my body. Clothes are bad enough.
	6:55pm Zinn The Mood: This a such a wonderful and necessary conversation. Thanks for conducting it. Looking forward to reading your pamphlet, August. Resonates a lot with what Matt Christman says: “We’ve been turned into cogs of pure desire.” “The internet exists to soothe your thwarted desires. It’s a pacifier. Everything that you don’t have in your life you can get a simulation of. And that includes sex, achievement in the form of video games, and politics in the way you feel like you’re becoming a political subject. It’s also predicated on never delivering those things, in only giving you the simulated version that you keep having to come back for. And the inevitable result of that is that you become desensitized, and you need more and more, because it’s not sufficient….which means that, the very structure of the internet - because that’s where the money’s at; it’s in the clicks - militates against ever doing anything constructive or positive.”
	♥ 6:55pm PaulRobeson1925: Thank you, August
	6:55pm A2B: ↳ Sam @6:51 I for one wouldn't mind going that retro if it meant gaining back my sense of organization.
	6:55pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: @Sam real, I tried carrying around my digital camera and gps and all that and it hurt my back I couldn't do it anymore, and also those devices are getting old and replacing all that is crazy
	6:55pm joe_rosevear: Thanks August and Mark!
	♥ 6:55pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks! Getting off my phone leaves time for all my other devices!
	6:56pm HyperDose: loved these hot takes! hot potatoes! whoa 😱
	6:56pm Juli P: Thank you so much August & Mark & Everyone!
	6:56pm ?: ↳ Sam @6:51 That‘s the point - you don‘t have to.
	♥ 6:56pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark, August. Great meeting of the minds!
	🤖 ♥ 6:56pm The Butterman: Thank you, August, Mark. Wonderful!
	♥ 6:57pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! The August!
	♥ 6:57pm Micheal: Thank you August and Mark! Very inspiring!
	♥ 6:57pm Webhamster Henry: I can report that people are seriously leaving Facebook and Instagram. They have probably already left the-service-formerly-known-as-Twitter.
	♥ 6:57pm chresti: Thanks Mark and August!
	6:58pm A2B: Thanks, Mark! Keep fighting the good fight, our Silicon Savior!
	6:58pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: I'm interested in those practical solutions I'll have to check out the book! thanks for the talk 🤖🤖
	♥ 6:59pm ultradamno: Flip this and you have Companion...robots can never trust people
	♥ 7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:00pm deeesat: Great interview! Thank you!
	♥ 7:02pm Will thee SG OCNY: Thank you Mark and August!!!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from February 10, 2025

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Feb 24th, 6pm - 7pm: AI and the future of war – with "Flash Wars" director Daniel Wunderer (More info...)
AI is now powering weapons systems like drones, robots, and the targeting algorithms they use. Mark speaks with Daniel Wunderer, the director of the documentary "Flash Wars: Autonomous Weapons, A.I. and the Future of Warfare ."

February 10, 2025: August Lamm: you don't need a smartphone

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Today: August Lamm on ditching the smartphone

Writer and visual artist August Lamm discovered recently that her smartphone was “ruining her life” - so she quit. Now she uses a flip phone and has more time for reading, playing music, and making art. August Lamm joins Mark live in-studio to discuss her new publication, “You Don’t Need a Smartphone: A Practical Guide to Downgrading and Reclaiming Your Life.”

• augustlamm.com – August’s website

• You Don’t Need a Smartphone: A Practical Guide to Downgrading and Reclaiming Your Life (digital version)

--> Read an excerpt in The Guardian (Jan 14, 2025)

• I Gave Up My Smartphone for a Dumbphone. You Can, Too. (by August in NYT, Feb 1, 2025)

• My Smartphone Was Ruining My Life. So I Quit. (by August in the Free Press, Dec 2, 2024)

• Join Mark for movie night on Thursday, Feb 20 at Monty Hall – we're watching the documentary Flash Wars: Autonomous Weapons, AI, and the Future of Warfare.

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PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

PODCAST: If you use an open podcast player reader, here’s an RSS feed. If you have to use a Big Tech podcast app, here’s Techtonic on iTunes.

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
August Lamm: you don't need a smartphone
Tomaš Dvořák	Gameboy Tune "Gameboy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"
	Interview with August Lamm "Interview with August Lamm"
Andrew Thompson	We're In Business	0:54:20 (MP3 \| Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	♥ 5:53pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonellicommunicators!
	6:01pm David (in London): Evening Mark and all Technoids here gathered.
	6:01pm hectic: i'm excited for this show! as the only 15 year old i know who makes the conscious choice not to have a cell phone, i must say i enjoy the weekly rant. keep it up!
	♥ 6:01pm Will thee SG OCNY: Good evening Mark Hurst and all!!!
	🤖 ♥ 6:02pm Peter from Saranac Lake NY: Good evening Mark and techno people.
	♥ 6:02pm Handy Haversack: Hey, Mark, Techyons.
	♥ 6:04pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtoniques!
	♥ 6:05pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Mark and phonies! TV commercials are beckoning people to download tax preparation apps and do their taxes on their phones. Seems like a wacky concept to me.
	6:07pm hectic: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:05 what? of course not. what a great idea. it'll be so much easier now on your phone.
	♥ 6:08pm Franco Twinkie: We can light black candles and make fun of them. Beyond that, I have no idea.
	6:08pm Andres: Handy gets Producer credit.
	♥ 6:08pm Handy Haversack: Glad this worked out! As soon as I saw August's work, I figured it was a match made in serious-attention heaven.
	♥ 6:09pm paddy in matawan: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:05 I have actually done my taxes on my phone one year. I was shocked it worked.
	♥ 6:09pm paddy in matawan: Nice rec. Handy!
	6:10pm Mattynotimes: I think it even goes past that. We’ve lived in a luxury vs survival society for so long now our reality spectrum is completely askew
	6:11pm Mattynotimes: Great interview! Very excited
	♥ 6:12pm cosmic matrix: Hallo there!
	♥ 6:12pm Spikey BXL: Hello Mark, luddites
	6:13pm A2B: Hello Mark, Technocrats & Technocrits! This topic always gets me coming back here for conversation. Ironically, I've been doing without a smartphone (or any kind of mobile phone, for that matter) for the last several months (which is about the same time I've last commented here, coincidentally). Likely won't be making a final decision on a newphone until after I've reviewed tonight's installment.
	6:13pm Mattynotimes: The other side of that is that people born into cell phones don’t have any perspective of what life could be like without it. We have 30-40 more years of people who were alive before them but after that all of history will be rewritten
	♥ 6:13pm DjLorraine: I'm here for this !
	6:14pm MarciB: I love that August is also an artist - which makes total sense that she's anti smartphone.
	♥ 6:14pm Webhamster Henry: Does anyone have their face buried in a newspaper?
	6:14pm Andres: Anyone else notice Nick Siriani holding his young son in his arms post-game and his son was holding a smartphone?
	6:14pm Sam: This is so weird to me. I think about what technology makes us lose constantly. As far as what we gain from it? I mean, nothing of substance.
	6:15pm jan: I’m out on the streets of NyC, listening to the show!
	♥ 6:15pm ultradamno: I was walking out of the supermarket the other day and the guy walking in front of me was, in agitation, talking to himself, or his bluetooth device. There's something else we lose, the ability to confidently identify who is having a legitimate conversation and who is insane.
	6:15pm MarciB: I read magazines on the train. I'm usually the only person.
	6:15pm GC in Oakland: I chose to stasis-grade with my 2012 PowerBook 17 inch with cd drive and iTunes. Stuck with it through motherboard failure, and cd drive failure…..now the big browsers don’t support its old OS. Never had a computer that succeeded it. For a certain old set of tasks i keep a 2004 PowerBook on hand, had to procure a circa 1984 printer just to print stuff out.
	♥ 6:15pm Webhamster Henry: I used to take advantage of teh zombie-like state of train riders to sketch them . I KNOW - I WAS VIOLATING THEIR PRIVACY.
	6:15pm MarciB: ↳ ultradamno @6:15 I think this a lot
	6:16pm ChristinaInCanada: That shared book-reading experience never happens to me now, on the bus/elevated light rapid transit. I do bring a print book with me and I do read it as best I can, even when I have to stand in a public transit bus/car.
	6:16pm Sam: ↳ ultradamno @6:15 There’s nothing insane about talking to yourself. It’s very healthy and helps you organize your thoughts.
	6:16pm hectic: the other kids are all phone zombies now. it's hard to relate.
	♥ 6:16pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ GC in Oakland @6:15 I have 2 busted 17" MacBooks. 17" rules! But now I have a 16", not such a sacrifice.
	6:17pm Andres: Park your car without a phone? Crazy.
	6:17pm ms boo: Regarding requiring surveillance phones… Macy’s got rid of the store map and just has a QR code to download their app. I just needed to find the bathroom!!!
	♥ 6:17pm ultradamno: ↳ Sam @6:16 Come on, man.
	♥ 6:17pm Handy Haversack: Never had a cell phone here.
	6:18pm MarciB: I sometimes keep track of the phone zombies I see around my neighborhood - but I often lose count after a while. Too many.
	♥ 6:18pm PaulRobeson1925: To what problem is this technology designed to solve
	♥ 6:18pm Mike Sin: I first started riding NJ Transit since the 1980s… Folks have always had their heads buried in something… newspapers, books, work stuff… Sure, folks are burying their heads in tracking devices now, and that’s uncool, but the train was never this social experience of folks having spontaneous conversations.
	6:18pm hectic: ↳ Andres @6:17 to use the parking meters you have to download the app.
	6:19pm herb.nyc: Yes, being ONE with another NON headphoner or NON phoner, but I’ve not spoken with that other person. Maybe I will now.
	6:19pm castor: One thing you miss if you wear headphones on the train are the rare moments when the conductor comes on the speaker and says something really funny, like calling it the G for Groovy Train. When it happens and I’m the only one noticing and laughing I feel so sad.
	6:19pm yippie: i started listening to music on my headphones on the train a lot so i don't need to listen to everyone else who is playing tiktok videos out loud.
	♥ 6:20pm Folsom: ↳ Mike Sin @6:18 Yeah I used to have a walkman, listening to my cassettes on the train, I don't see much difference.
	6:20pm ChristinaInCanada: I prefer it when people use their headphones to listen to audio on their devices to people sitting next or behind me and listening to their audio at high volume without my consent.
	6:20pm Juli P: SO happy to hear this.
	6:22pm hectic: the other day i was in a waiting room and this woman was swiping through things on her phone. OUT LOUD. it was so annoying to hear the beginning of something just get cut off. but i'm so mad about people's attention spans nowadays! it's like you're so obsessed with what comes next that you're just swiping and swiping and swiping!
	6:23pm Sam: I stopped listening to music on the train once I got a phone that didn’t have a plug for my old headphones. And now that I’m used to real life and situational awareness I can never go back to blocking out the world.
	6:24pm A2B: ↳ hectic @6:16 So why try? Follow my example: Keep yourself out of their collective radar. Take your observation as a sign that you're unique and know better than to waste your time with things you can't relate to. (Just try to avoid talking about it to others unless they feel you).
	6:25pm Juli P: I stop scrolling: I rarely do
	♥ 6:26pm cosmic matrix: Not to mention the phone being a disease vector! Reddit on the toilet, anyone?? :)
	♥ 6:27pm Steve Del Sol: This chat stream is the only "social media" I participate in. I saw this future, that all these systems would amplify negativity, not even realizing the algorithmic aspect to it. I am deep into tech (CAD engineer) but wall the nonsense off. And read only vetted news.
	♥ 6:27pm PaulRobeson1925: Life is what I say it is
	6:27pm hectic: ↳ A2B @6:24 yeah, i used to complain about the internet with other kids but they didn't enjoy that. so now i just talk about other stuff with them and it can be interesting. i just wish lots of them would stop wasting their time on them, you know? i'm trying to accept that i'm just more aware of this than them.
	6:27pm ChristinaInCanada: this isn't tech-averse but it is surveillance-averse: I retreated to command-line pubnix environment. I had a nice IRC session with a half-dozen people, I am microblogging without angry reply-guys or others' doomy boosts. Slower and smaller, when I can't go out and engage in meatspace
	♥ 6:28pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:27 History is what I say it is
	♥ 6:28pm Steve Del Sol: ↳ PaulRobeson1925 @6:28 Are you vetted?
	6:29pm Juli P: I'm on Instagram trying to find humans. It makes me so happy tho so I am putting it down more IT also Ruined my eyes working on the phone
	6:29pm Juli P: SO UNHAPPY lol
	♥ 6:29pm Webhamster Henry: The productivity advances in workplace tech over the last 50 years just has turned into more uncompensated labor.
	6:30pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: the hardest part of jumping off technology: it can be really hard to find the same kind of support in real life
	6:31pm Mark T: ↳ Song: "Interview with August Lamm" Awesome discussion
	♥ 6:32pm PaulRobeson1925: ↳ Steve Del Sol @6:28 Hello, Mr.Steve. I’m wondering, what’s fer dinner?
	6:33pm hectic: ↳ Steve Del Sol @6:27 the only thing i do on my computer is check my email and look at this website. it's easier to do less on this because i dont go to school. everything at schools is on screens now.
	6:33pm joe_rosevear: Hmmm. I agree that popular technology is annoying and troublesome. So, yes, perhaps no computer at all would be a good choice. Some of us, however, use a PC that is Linux based, and mostly disconnected from the evil empire.
	6:33pm Jeff Moore: I've been upgrading... our landlines! When people talk on the phone, way too often they do it by pressing an awkward small slab-shaped pocket computer up to the side of their head, and it's by absolutely no means a pleasant experience. Cell "phones" are actually absolutely terrible actual phones. So I've been making sure that when anyone in out home wants to talk by voice with another human being somewhere else, it can be done using a dedicated hardwired device optimized for talking, with a nice comfortable real handset. But I'm actually letting a little bit of newer technology slip in, because I think it's not completely un-useful: the dedicated desk (or kitchen WALL, with a big long coiled handset cord just like the Beforetimes) phones are VOIP (Voice-Over-IP) devices with a digital connection direct to each phone – just because the sound quality of the calls is really nice, and might improve the subtleties of the person-to-person link while chatting. I love the resiliency and bulletproof build of the old-fashioned real copper-wire POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) phone system of yore – with sturdy Western Electric phone instruments which could be used as a club then make a call just fine, and all those phones powered by the phone network even through a blackout in your home – but Verizon allowed all the copper wiring to rot and somehow got out from under the requirement to maintain that essential infrastructure, and switched us all to fake-copper service using VOIP to the home which then drove the copper wires in our house... so none of the reliability of classic POTS, but the bandwidth and flexibility limitations of copper phone lines. So I figured if we'd be living with the fragility of VOIP, we might as well optimize for its advantages. I'm digging that.
	6:33pm Kid Kodama: really enjoying this conversation. I feel very dependent on my phone, it also gives me some really fantastic experiences while commuting, that are almost exclusively related to listening to music. I should invest in a walkman or something
	6:34pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: it's so messed up that so many of us need smart phones for so many things and even for safety (travelling etc. like we can't just stop and ask for directions everywhere especially travelling alone/vulnerable, and plus nobody knows directions or too suspicious to help lol), we need to build more robust communities!! but in the meantime, I use this thing for everything I can't afford from education to therapy
	♥ 6:35pm mndave: ↳ hectic @6:33 It's so frustrating to see my nieces and nephews with their school-issued chromebooks and ipads. I don't care if the devices lack social media or unfilitered internet, it's the conditioning to depend on screens through their formative years.
	6:35pm A2B: ↳ hectic @6:27 Consider yourself lucky. As long as you're not the kind who brings attention to himself/herself, you won't get yourself in a heated conversation that escalates into aggressive behavior.
	6:36pm nickybones: Social media seems like the worst part of the surveillance phone. Of course, you’re surveilled other places but social media is probably the worst avenue for it. Weirdly, having a laptop & surveillance phone is sorta freeing for me, allowing me to work remotely so I can do things like tour and work from the van.
	6:36pm Aravind: Hello Mark & August, Great discussion. Here are some articles from the NY Times this week about this topic - https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/01/magazine/anna-lembke-interview.html AND https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/30/style/luddite-teens-reunion.html?smid=url-share
	6:37pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: i got off major social media a few years ago and while I feel sooooo much better in many ways, I've also missed out on so many shows, updates, peoples entire lives, in the years in between. catching up with people I hadn't seen in ages, I realized how much I missed. even close friends forget to call cuz they forget I didn't get the facebook invite. we need to figure out how to bridge the gap in our communities
	♥ 6:37pm ultradamno: Well, Zuck has his hands full addressing the unfairness of his in house comments being leaked with no regard for his privacy when he's trying to be so transparent.
	6:38pm hectic: ↳ mndave @6:35 it's funny, when i went to school we always hated how lots of stuff was 'restricted'. now i'm thankful it was and i see what a good idea it is! but it's a solution to a problem that never needed to exist.
	6:39pm hectic: thanks for the show mark! i'm just gonna listen now. time to get off the tech
	6:40pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: places where people can gather freely in person without spending money are severely lacking, which feeds directly into the smartphone addiction. people are lonely
	♥ 6:41pm PaulRobeson1925: Wearing an ear ring!!!!
	♥ 6:41pm PaulRobeson1925: Two earrings on the same ear!!!!
	♥ 6:41pm PaulRobeson1925: Three earings!!!!
	6:42pm Jessica B: In the future I envision tech-free communities, just like August suggested. The catch is that only the wealthy will be able to live there.
	6:42pm kata: I used to do "Device-Free Saturdays." I made it up. It's a great first step, and makes the rest of the week better!
	6:42pm mr_donutsu: But, but, this phone is my lifeline to WFMU. Sigh
	6:43pm pmcWhenever: balance. it is relative to your conditions. changing conditions aka environment, peeps, places… we have bodies that want to move and inhabit space… balance is a dynamic process… put the screens away every day at the same rough time and really be with what you are doing that isn’t mediated by a screen…
	♥ 6:43pm Bas NL: Traveling on public transport these days is like stepping in to a zombie movie. Everybody is glued to a phone.
	6:43pm nickybones: This is a bit of an overstatement. Tell Mariame Kaba she’s not radical because she’s using a smartphone and posting on Bluesky.
	6:43pm ChristinaInCanada: So much for engagement. Interesting that my command-line experience today on a small server had much more engagement with people in Brazil, Germany, and Australia, none of whom I had encountered online before, all new people. Bye
	6:43pm castor: What about having a really old smartphone that you can't use most apps on because they don't work?
	♥ 6:44pm PaulRobeson1925: I agree. It’s interesting to wonder how do we come to know what we know? The civil war for example. Oh, you know about the America Civil war? What have you read on 1861-1865v
	♥ 6:45pm mndave: ↳ castor @6:43 the catch is that device support and security updates are sunsetted thanks to forced obsolescence. unless you've got a rotating roster of slightly less out-of-date devices at the ready, it's still going to be a hindrance sooner rather than later
	♥ 6:45pm PaulRobeson1925: It’s like trying to tell a T.V lover to stop watching T.V. Give up yer phone. Ok, yea.. i ummm i’ll think about that…
	6:45pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: I think addressing the hole a smartphone attempts to fill for a person (social, navigation, tool, etc) is most effective in reducing the need for the phone in the first place. Ive made waves of attempts to kick the smartphone but i keep picking it back up because I have things to do, and that's what I got... interested in mid and low tech solutions people have been introducing!
	6:47pm Sb: try a Kyocera dumb-phone
	♥ 6:47pm Bas NL: The Netherlands is gearing down on 3G.. no more old style phones.. :(
	6:48pm Jeff Moore: Yes, and if you want to take a photo – use an actual camera! www.flickr.com...
	6:49pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: yeah I'm Panicked About Navigation it's called being lost and alone in an unfamiliar place LOL I value my life
	6:49pm A2B: Speaking of Zuckboy, I was reminded that the farmer in "Charlotte's Web" is named Zuckerman (I have the DVD of the Hanna-Barbera adaptation), which gave me an idea for a song parody of the movie's climax number "Zuckerman's Famous Pig". My parody version would be called "Zuckerberg's Facebook Page". Just have to get cracking on thinking up the lyrics.
	♥ 6:50pm chresti: It's a lot to take on a bus
	♥ 6:50pm Webhamster Henry: Well, the convergence of tools in one device could be faked with a flashlight that is a mirror, a wind-up clock and a few other analog devices.
	♥ 6:51pm mndave: ↳ red_door_what_for in ypsilanti @6:49 The obvious irony is that everyone who uses navigation is still lost. My ex used to make wrong turns out of our driveway because the GPS didn't orient them immediately.
	6:51pm GorillaFella: What about things like location sharing with friends to stay safe on dates and travels in unfamiliar areas? Or access to things like uber if you dont have a car and live somewhere without public transport?
	6:51pm Sam: But then you have to carry all that stuff around. I used to shlep around a portable CD player and a camera and a flip phone. That was no fun. And I had to wear a watch.
	🤖 ♥ 6:52pm listener 126464: On the lightphone bandwagon.
	6:53pm Jeff Moore: ↳ Sam @6:51 One should still wear a watch, always.
	6:53pm Juli P: Thinking about the answers, friends
	6:54pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: @mndave sure lol but I'm talking about safety. when my car broke down in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere for example. also walking home at night. I'm not exactly "big and tough looking" and human trafficking is crazy around here. having my phone has saved me from bad situations where I needed an exit. I hate that I need it.
	6:54pm Sam: ↳ Jeff Moore @6:53 I can’t wear watches, rings, chains, anything like that on my body. Clothes are bad enough.
	6:55pm Zinn The Mood: This a such a wonderful and necessary conversation. Thanks for conducting it. Looking forward to reading your pamphlet, August. Resonates a lot with what Matt Christman says: “We’ve been turned into cogs of pure desire.” “The internet exists to soothe your thwarted desires. It’s a pacifier. Everything that you don’t have in your life you can get a simulation of. And that includes sex, achievement in the form of video games, and politics in the way you feel like you’re becoming a political subject. It’s also predicated on never delivering those things, in only giving you the simulated version that you keep having to come back for. And the inevitable result of that is that you become desensitized, and you need more and more, because it’s not sufficient….which means that, the very structure of the internet - because that’s where the money’s at; it’s in the clicks - militates against ever doing anything constructive or positive.”
	♥ 6:55pm PaulRobeson1925: Thank you, August
	6:55pm A2B: ↳ Sam @6:51 I for one wouldn't mind going that retro if it meant gaining back my sense of organization.
	6:55pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: @Sam real, I tried carrying around my digital camera and gps and all that and it hurt my back I couldn't do it anymore, and also those devices are getting old and replacing all that is crazy
	6:55pm joe_rosevear: Thanks August and Mark!
	♥ 6:55pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks! Getting off my phone leaves time for all my other devices!
	6:56pm HyperDose: loved these hot takes! hot potatoes! whoa 😱
	6:56pm Juli P: Thank you so much August & Mark & Everyone!
	6:56pm ?: ↳ Sam @6:51 That‘s the point - you don‘t have to.
	♥ 6:56pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark, August. Great meeting of the minds!
	🤖 ♥ 6:56pm The Butterman: Thank you, August, Mark. Wonderful!
	♥ 6:57pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! The August!
	♥ 6:57pm Micheal: Thank you August and Mark! Very inspiring!
	♥ 6:57pm Webhamster Henry: I can report that people are seriously leaving Facebook and Instagram. They have probably already left the-service-formerly-known-as-Twitter.
	♥ 6:57pm chresti: Thanks Mark and August!
	6:58pm A2B: Thanks, Mark! Keep fighting the good fight, our Silicon Savior!
	6:58pm red_door_what_for in ypsilanti: I'm interested in those practical solutions I'll have to check out the book! thanks for the talk 🤖🤖
	♥ 6:59pm ultradamno: Flip this and you have Companion...robots can never trust people
	♥ 7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:00pm deeesat: Great interview! Thank you!
	♥ 7:02pm Will thee SG OCNY: Thank you Mark and August!!!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from February 10, 2025

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