Favoriting Testify! with Larry Grogan: Playlist from April 22, 2021 Favoriting

Funky16Corners's avatar View Funky16Corners's profile Favoriting

A roadmap that reveals the highways, byways, ley lines and subterranean tunnels connecting rock, soul, pop, folk rock, R&B, garage, punk, funk, jazz, world music, and soundtracks from the twilight of the 1950s to the dawn of the 1970s. Larry Grogan is a DJ, writer, podcaster, collector, and the man behind Funky16Corners.

Thursday 3 - 5pm (EDT) | On WFMU's Give the Drummer Radio
Give the Drummer Radio LIVE Audio Streams (Get help):   Pop-up  |  128k MP3

<-- Previous playlist | Back to Testify! with Larry Grogan playlists | Next playlist -->


Favoriting April 22, 2021: Testify! - Pop Op Drops: The Psychedelic World of Plasticland!

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Playlist image Favoriting

Artist Track Album Label Year Format Comments Approx. start time
Funky16Corners  Testify! Intro   Favoriting Best of Funky16Corners Volume One  Funky16Corners  2017  MP3    0:00:00 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Mink Dress   Favoriting 45RPM Single  Scadillac  1980  45    0:01:26 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Office Skills   Favoriting 45RPM Single  Scadillac  1980  45    0:04:15 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Standing In a Room   Favoriting Vibrasonics From Plasticland  Scadillac  1981  EP    0:05:57 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  The Mushroom Hill   Favoriting Vibrasonics From Plasticland  Scadillac  1981  EP    0:09:18 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Rattail Comb   Favoriting Vibrasonics From Plasticland  Scadillac  1981  EP    0:11:31 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Magic Rocking Horse   Favoriting 45RPM Single  Lolita  1984  45    0:13:23 (Pop-up)
 
Plasticland  Alexander   Favoriting Plasticland  Pink Dust  1984  LP    0:22:27 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Disengaged From the World   Favoriting Plasticland  Pink Dust  1984  LP    0:25:37 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  The Glove   Favoriting Plasticland  Pink Dust  1984  LP    0:28:11 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Sipping The Bitterness   Favoriting Plasticland  Pink Dust  1984  LP    0:30:29 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  The Garden In Pain   Favoriting Plasticland  Pink Dust  1984  LP    0:32:33 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Wallflowers   Favoriting Plasticland  Pink Dust  1984  LP    0:34:32 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Euphoric Trapdoor Shoes   Favoriting Plasticland  Pink Dust  1984  LP  Originally appeared as a Scadillac 45 in 1983  0:37:47 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Pop! Op Drops   Favoriting Plasticland  Pink Dust  1984  LP  Originally appeared on 1982 Pop! Op Drops EP on Scadillac  0:40:15 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Flower Scene   Favoriting 45RPM Single  Midnight  1985  45    0:41:25 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  No Shine For The Shoes   Favoriting Wonder Wonderful Wonderland  Pink Dust  1985  LP    0:43:46 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Gloria Knight   Favoriting Wonder Wonderful Wonderland  Pink Dust  1985  LP    0:46:12 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Transparencies Friends   Favoriting Wonder Wonderful Wonderland  Pink Dust  1985  LP    0:49:26 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Gingerbread House   Favoriting Wonder Wonderful Wonderland  Pink Dust  1985  LP    0:52:52 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Processes Of the Silverness   Favoriting Wonder Wonderful Wonderland  Pink Dust  1985  LP    0:56:49 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Wonder Wonderful Wonderland   Favoriting Wonder Wonderful Wonderland  Pink Dust  1985  LP    0:59:25 (Pop-up)
 
Plasticland  They Wore Sequined Masks/The Lady Is No Lady/Some Ghost Ship Lollipop   Favoriting Bucketful of Brains EP  Bucketfull of Brains  1986  Flexi    1:08:44 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Go a Go Go Time   Favoriting Salon  Pink Dust  1987  LP    1:11:37 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  A Brief Commentary On Wax Museums   Favoriting Salon  Pink Dust  1987  LP    1:15:06 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Abcessed Words to Climb   Favoriting Salon  Pink Dust  1987  LP    1:18:44 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  House   Favoriting Salon  Pink Dust  1987  LP    1:20:41 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  The Lie of Great Sedan Pinocchio   Favoriting Salon  Pink Dust  1987  LP    1:23:10 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Serene It's True   Favoriting Salon  Pink Dust  1987  LP    1:25:19 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Reserving the Right To Change My Mind   Favoriting Salon  Pink Dust  1987  LP    1:27:51 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  The Windowsills   Favoriting Salon  Pink Dust  1987  LP    1:31:38 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Let's Play Polyanna   Favoriting Let's Play Polyanna  Repulsion  1989  EP  Also appeared on LP Dapper Snappings  1:34:11 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Radiant Fuzzbox Wig   Favoriting Let's Play Polyanna  Repulsion  1989  EP  Also Appeared ON LP Dapper Snappings  1:36:46 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Kaleidoscopic Glance   Favoriting Let's Play Polyanna  Repulsion  1989  EP    1:42:27 (Pop-up)
Plasticland  Enchanted Forestry   Favoriting Let's Play Polyanna  Repulsion  1989  CD    1:44:46 (Pop-up)
Fabulon Triptometer  Living With the Lady   Favoriting Padded Lounge  Midnight  1989  CD    1:47:51 (Pop-up)
 
Rex Garvin and the Mighty Cravers  I Gotta Go Now (Up On The Floor)   Favoriting 45RPM single  Like  1966  45    1:56:49 (Pop-up)

Example


<-- Previous playlist | Back to Testify! with Larry Grogan playlists | Next playlist -->

RSS feeds for Testify! with Larry Grogan: RSSPlaylists feed | RSSMP3 archives feed

| E-mail Larry Grogan | Other WFMU Playlists | All artists played by Testify! with Larry Grogan |

Listen on the Internet | Contact Us | Music & Programs | WFMU Home Page | Support Us | FAQ

Live Audio Streams for Give the Drummer Radio: Pop-up | 128k MP3    (More streams: [+])


Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:01pm
Little Danny:

Looking forward to this, Larry! Huge fan of Plasticland.
Avatar 3:02pm
northguineahills:

Larry!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:02pm
Funky16Corners:

NGH! Danny!
Avatar 3:03pm
northguineahills:

Should look up if Richie Hawton (Platicman), ever remixed Platicland.
Avatar 3:04pm
Vincent The Soul Chef:

Good afternoon fam... 36 boxes of albums later, give or take... next it's the CDs.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:04pm
Funky16Corners:

I don't think they ever intersected with dance music
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:04pm
Funky16Corners:

Hey Vincent!
  3:04pm
lis-boner pasc:

Woah! Strong start! Howdy all :-)
Avatar 🥁 Swag For Life Member 3:05pm
Yvang:

Thanks for recycling (and spinning) Plasticland, Larry!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:05pm
Funky16Corners:

Hey pasc! Yvang!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:06pm
Funky16Corners:

One of my all time favorite bands!
Avatar 🥁 Swag For Life Member 3:09pm
Brian in UK:

Hello Larry.
Avatar 3:09pm
Erica:

Hi Testifies. Never heard of Plasticland before.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:09pm
Funky16Corners:

Brian!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:10pm
Funky16Corners:

Hi Erica! You're in for a treat!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:10pm
Little Danny:

I don't want to jump the gun with my Plasticland enthusiasm but, Larry, did you know Glenn Rehse popped on an episode of Antiques Roadshow?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:10pm
Candy-O'67:

Hey, Larry and Testifiers!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:10pm
Funky16Corners:

Yes! With a paper dress!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:10pm
Rick from SC:

Hi Larry and all the good people out there
Avatar 3:10pm
Vincent The Soul Chef:

@Erica me either... I'm already on the hunt for LPs, as long as they're not *too* pricey
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:10pm
Funky16Corners:

Candy-O!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:10pm
holland oats:

hullo testes!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:11pm
Candy-O'67:

Plasticland is new to me! Sounding cool so far!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:11pm
Funky16Corners:

holland oates!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:11pm
Funky16Corners:

Hey Rick!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:11pm
Little Danny:

Yep! And "paper dress" is such a potential Plasticland lyrical theme.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:12pm
Candy-O'67:

So, I guess they were resurging psychedelic in the '80's?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:12pm
Funky16Corners:

@Danny - Have you seen the interview they did for their Hall of Fame induction in Wisconsin?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:12pm
Candy-O'67:

Groovy outfits!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:12pm
Funky16Corners:

@Candy-O - They did it better than anyone else!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:12pm
Candy-O'67:

Hey, Little Danny!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:13pm
Little Danny:

No, I definitely need to look that up.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:13pm
Candy-O'67:

Awesome, Larry! Happy to be turned on to them!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:13pm
Little Danny:

Hey hey Candy.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:14pm
Funky16Corners:

@Danny - They look like hell, but Rehse is forthcoming with the stories and they lay some cool live clips
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:15pm
Little Danny:

I found the clip, Larry, thanks.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:15pm
Funky16Corners:

Apparently Frankovic has had some health issues, and they both have to be well into their 60s
Avatar 3:16pm
Erica:

Forgot to say Happy Earth Day. 🌎
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:17pm
Little Danny:

Just hearing all these tracks reminds me of how, again, Plasticland's music has stood up much better than most neo-'60s groups of the '80s (and '90s and 2000s...) Such a different and clear, if not queer, sensibility.
Avatar 3:19pm
northguineahills:

The record store guy when I was in HS, did a revival psyche band in the 90s (Common Thread). Introduced me to psyche music.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:23pm
Funky16Corners:

@Danny - I have read things that suggest that there was indeed a queer aspect to their material, covering themes of transvestism especially.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:24pm
Funky16Corners:

And, yes, their music holds up in a way the sounds of many of their contemporaries does not.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:24pm
Candy-O'67:

This is way cool!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:24pm
Funky16Corners:

BTW, if you haven't heard the original of this song, it is a faithful adaptation
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:25pm
Candy-O'67:

So, you said this is their first album, self-titled?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:26pm
Candy-O'67:

Or Vibrasonics? I looked at the date now.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:26pm
Funky16Corners:

Yes. Vibrasonics was an early EP
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:26pm
Candy-O'67:

Oh, yes, I see that now
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:26pm
Funky16Corners:

Here's the album: www.discogs.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:26pm
Candy-O'67:

So, both would be good to get?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:27pm
Candy-O'67:

Thanks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:27pm
Funky16Corners:

EVERYTHING!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:27pm
Candy-O'67:

LOL
Avatar 3:27pm
Vincent The Soul Chef:

Reasonably priced too... that's what we like to see :)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:27pm
Candy-O'67:

Yes, Vincent the Soul Chef
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:27pm
Funky16Corners:

Oh man, this makes me want DRUGS. ALL THE DRUGS!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:28pm
Funky16Corners:

There's also a great, inexpensive Rykodisc comp of their stuff
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:28pm
Little Danny:

This was serious drug music for me too.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:29pm
Funky16Corners:

You let it into your head through your ears and the magic begins!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:34pm
Funky16Corners:

I always pictured these guys living communally in an old Victorian house filled with memorabilia and rare records.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:37pm
Little Danny:

And various printed florals.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:38pm
Funky16Corners:

Yes, lots of velvet drapes and scarves everywhere.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:39pm
Little Danny:

Haha, this is one of my favorites of the completely over-the-top Plasticland song titles.
Avatar 3:41pm
Erica:

Are they purple drapes Larry? Ned Flanders would go crazy for them.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:41pm
Funky16Corners:

Wait'll we get to Salon!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:41pm
Funky16Corners:

@Erica - I'm pretty sure these guys would scare the crap out of Ned Flanders
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:43pm
Little Danny:

"Flower Scene" is a personal Plasticland fave. Such hooks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:43pm
Funky16Corners:

Written about this magazine: lysergia_2.tripod.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:44pm
Little Danny:

Whoa, didn't know that backstory.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:44pm
Funky16Corners:

I remember reading the story in a zine back in the day.
Avatar 3:45pm
Erica:

I'm sure they would Larry. But then again Flanders was a big Beatles fan.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:47pm
Funky16Corners:

You never know. Ned might have missed all the obvious warning signals and thought they were in the circus or something
Avatar 3:47pm
northguineahills:

I can hear how Platicland is sort of the VU for Britpop in the 90s(despite being American)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:48pm
Funky16Corners:

It blows my mind how obscure they are. You can tell how much by how cheap most of their records are. All released on indie labels, some very small, yet still easy to get.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:49pm
Funky16Corners:

They ought to have a cult of their own
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:49pm
Little Danny:

Totally agree.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:50pm
Funky16Corners:

They clearly spent a lot of time and money in the studio. These records all sound great.
Avatar 3:50pm
Erica:

Only if they're for Satan Larry.
Avatar 3:55pm
northguineahills:

I agree Erica, sick of the cult of Yahweh/Elohim (the original entymology of of the latter, not the current Hebrew meaning).
Avatar 3:57pm
Erica:

I was referring to something else ngh but okay.
Avatar 3:58pm
northguineahills:

(been watching a lot of Israeli cinema lately, don't ask, also a lot of Finnish. I discover cinema the same as music or anything, jump into anything I know nothing about).
Avatar Swag For Life Member 3:59pm
Funky16Corners:

That's the way to go. Follow your curiosity!
Avatar 🥁 Swag For Life Member 4:05pm
Brian in UK:

Elastic?
Avatar 4:06pm
Creature Boy:

Sir or Madame ?
Avatar 🥁 Swag For Life Member 4:07pm
Brian in UK:

Bodacious?
Avatar 4:08pm
Creature Boy:

Coffee, tea or me?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:09pm
Funky16Corners:

Hello Creature Boy!
Avatar 4:10pm
Creature Boy:

HellO 👋
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:10pm
Little Danny:

Very cool that you have this flexi, Larry. I know these tracks only through the "Mink Dress And Other Cats" collection that came out on Timothy's Brain.
Avatar 4:11pm
northguineahills:

wows, it's been 5 years since we lost the purple one!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:11pm
Funky16Corners:

It's not in the best shape, but it plays...
Avatar 🥁 Swag For Life Member 4:11pm
WR:

hi Larry and all, listened for a bit during lunch break. interesting band. new to me. well. back to work. laters.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:12pm
Mike Sin:

Glad to finally drop in here after endless work meetings. Really do love this band. Back in 1985, "Flower Scene" was my favorite single by all of those neo-garage/psychedelic bands! I played that single to death -- I thought that song was downright fabulous.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:12pm
Funky16Corners:

Hey WR! Mike!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:13pm
Little Danny:

One of my faves from "Salon"! Love the Motown groove + mellotron!
Avatar 🥁 Swag For Life Member 4:13pm
Brian in UK:

Can you believe that the BBC respected Prince's demise.
www.bbc.co.uk...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:13pm
Funky16Corners:

@Mike - Plasticland were more fully formed than any of their contemporaries.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:13pm
Funky16Corners:

@Danny - It was years before I realized that this was a tip of the hat to the Mighty Hannibal's Jerking the Dog.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:14pm
Little Danny:

Did not know that 'til just now, Larry!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:15pm
Candy-O'67:

Really diggin' this Go a Go Go Time!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:15pm
Little Danny:

Plasticland certainly knew their gear. How many '80s groups had working mellotrons?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:16pm
Funky16Corners:

Probably not many. There used to be one in the music store I hung out in as a teenager. Never saw another.
Avatar 4:17pm
Vincent The Soul Chef:

I've been wondering if XTC ever paid attention to these guys...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:17pm
Little Danny:

I've never seen one played live.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:18pm
Funky16Corners:

@Vincent - I wouldn't be surprised if they were aware.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:18pm
Funky16Corners:

@Danny - Me neither, but I suspect that digital keyboards that can sample have made them obsolete
Avatar 4:18pm
northguineahills:

@Brian: scheisse! that's awesome. Funny, I have an afro-brit friend who's both Prince and Archers fan.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:19pm
Little Danny:

That Dukes of Stratosphear LP definitely owes a debt to Plasticland, intentionally or not.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:19pm
doctorjazz:

Hi folks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:19pm
Funky16Corners:

Hey Doc!
Avatar 4:19pm
Vincent The Soul Chef:

I think it would've been cool if they took the Dukes Of Stratosfear concept to another level, Larry...
Avatar 4:19pm
northguineahills:

Yeah mellotrons were highly unreliable even when brand new.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:20pm
Funky16Corners:

@Vincent - That would have been cool
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:23pm
Funky16Corners:

Here's a great title!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:27pm
Mike Sin:

Did anyone here ever see Plasticland live? I saw them live "after the fact," as it were, in 2001 or 2002 at the Village Underground in NYC during one of those "Cavestomp" shows.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:28pm
Funky16Corners:

Did they even play out this way in their prime?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:30pm
Little Danny:

Yeah I get the sense they stayed around Milwaukee for the most part.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:31pm
Funky16Corners:

I have a vague recollection of Twin Cities friends having seen them up in Minneapolis.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:31pm
Mike Sin:

I don't think so... I may have seen them at Coney Island High in NYC as well... but even that would have been 1998 or 1999. I did not see them live in the '980s.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:32pm
Funky16Corners:

I did see John Frankovic hanging out at Maxwells once, but just him.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:36pm
Funky16Corners:

I think if it had been Rehse I would have lost my cool. "Excuse me master, can you reveal all of your arcane knowledge to me??"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:38pm
Little Danny:

Bought this EP at the former Midnight Records store in NYC.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:38pm
Funky16Corners:

JD Martignon's House of Vinyl! Home of the Seexteez Ponk Zound!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:39pm
Little Danny:

Yep! That guy was kind of an asshole to the teenaged me.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:40pm
Funky16Corners:

He was kind of an asshole to LOTS of people, myself included!
  4:45pm
wenzo llc.:

been picking up trash in the woods all week & for the last hour or so while I listen to the show... very appropriate soundtrack for pulling disintegrating plastic bags & styrofoam takeout boxes out of the soil. happy earth day fellow citizens of plastic land... welcome to the new geological era... defined by the presence of plastic, cement, & chicken bones. yay.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:46pm
Funky16Corners:

Hey Wenzo! Yeah, too much tossing things on the ground that ought to be binned. On all levels.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:46pm
Mike Sin:

Strangely, JD was always cool with me when I went to the store on 23rd st. I used to buy so many 7" records there and fanzines. When CDs showed up, it was impossible to browse because they were kept in those flip racks and a lot of times you could not read the back so you wouldn't know what tracks were on the disc. Then you had to ask an employee to get it from the back... then you felt obligated to buy it... yeesh.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:47pm
Little Danny:

Wonderful show today, Larry. Always inspiring.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:47pm
Funky16Corners:

Thanks Danny!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:48pm
Funky16Corners:

@Mike - I (and I think Bill) were there the day he rejected demo because it didn't have that "raw sixteez ponk zound". He moved a bunch of Phantom Five EPs though...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:49pm
Funky16Corners:

I think I spent most of my money at Venus Records, anyway
Avatar 4:54pm
Vincent The Soul Chef:

Once I get settled in Texas, I will be buying a bunch of their rekkids. Thanks for the education as always, sir :)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:54pm
Mike Sin:

The RykoDisc comp is the best and cheapest place to start!
Avatar 🥁 Swag For Life Member 4:55pm
Yvang:

Thanks for the buyers tip!
Avatar 🥁 Swag For Life Member 4:55pm
Yvang:

And a fabulous show!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:57pm
JR HTX:

Amazing show, Larry. Thanks for turning me on to Plasticland. much enjoyed!!!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:57pm
Funky16Corners:

Thanks Yvang!
Avatar 4:57pm
Erica:

Thanks for the groovy show Larry.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:57pm
Funky16Corners:

Thanks JRHTX!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 4:57pm
Funky16Corners:

Thanks Erica!
Avatar 4:58pm
Erica:

Hopefully I will have more to talk about here.
  4:59pm
wenzo llc.:

@funkycorners yea. but also we just need a global ban on most plastic packaging. its never really gonna get much better until that happens.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 5:00pm
Funky16Corners:

Agreed.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 5:09pm
Candy-O'67:

Thanks, Larry! I got busy with work and wasn't able to thank you before the show ended!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 5:10pm
Funky16Corners:

Thanks Candy-O!
Bottom
Comment!
Name
Email
(C) 2024 WFMU. Generated by KenzoDB, written 2000-2024 by Ken Garson